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Winoman
Herndon VA
Grape Sorter
Posts:390
 | | 11/15/2007 4:15 AM |
| | Just checked out the menu - and it looks very fine indeed. I also perused their beer and wine list and while the wine is priced well and there are some nice bottles (such as the neal) I'm really jazzed about their beers. We may want to consider perhaps a lambic or a geuze or a trippleor several - perhaps with/as desert or some such or maybe prior to dinner (instead of the white wines or champagne perhaps). Anyway just a thought...if you are a beer lover you will understand where I am coming from on this one.... | | | |
| norm herring
Grape Sorter
Posts:238
| | 11/15/2007 9:20 AM |
| Winoman is right about the beers. I had started to try to drink my way through the list of beers on tap- all Belgians. Unfortuanatley or fortunately- as you choose- they change the menu weekly and last week they had a special holiday ale- which ran out while I was there. Everybody at the bar groaned- it was God's nectar. My wife - who didn't drink beer until about 5 years ago- saves up her calories for a Kasteel Donker which she drinks instead of dessert. I'm open for anything and will be prepared with my champagne as I generally don't mix wine and beer. But some of the beers are desserts by themselves.
The Chef's table seats a maximum of 10 so the only space is if TREP can't make it. We are at 9 with Dinwiddie's sis as no. 10 if she comes. It's a spectacular space that is pictured on the Beck website, but just can't grow in size from 10.
Din- do you have Seitsma's email and I'll send him a copy of the email I sent the manager of Source. To his credit the General Manager did call me at home last night to see what he could do to make it right-but it was too late for this time. He did say that Puck's management was going to look at the corkage charges after a short time- but it was the policy throughout the chain to charge the $65 after 3 bottles. I explained that policy was hostile to groups like ours that have private collections- who like to dine out with friends and share our collections- not only with ourseleves but the members of boards like this one.
If you give me the information on how to link up with the other sites I'll send the information about my encounter with "Source".
Any other thoughts on wine versus or combined with the great beers at Becks?? | | | |
| dinwiddie
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2177
| | 11/15/2007 11:54 AM |
| I just talked to my sister, she should be arriving at National at about 5:30 tomarrow evening, so she is going to join us. Since it is her birthday, I promised I'd bring something special out of the cellar for her. Therefore, I propose to bring:
1) a 1990 Piper-Heidsieck Champagne Brut Rare (my last bottle)
2) a 1999 Barone Ricasoli Casalferro
I am not much of a beer drinker, but Belgian beer is wonderful. However, I do not, under any circumstances, mix grain and grape anymore. I have learned my lesson in that regard.Â
Norm,
As far as I know, you can contact Tom Seitsma by email at asktom@washpost.com. He also has a discussion each Wednesday on line at 11am that you can submit comments and questions to.
The other two boards I frequent (other than TJ's Roguefood.com) are www.DonRockwell.com and Chowhound.com. Rockwell is more DC centric, Chowhound is worldwide but has a DC/Balt. specific board.
I'm glad to see that the manager called you, but the attitude/behavior of the sommelier leaves a lot to be desired. I worked in a couple of fine restaurants in LA in the early 70's and I never heard of a manager that couldn't override "corporate policy" when s/he wanted to and had a good reason. I would also think that a "West Coast" restaurant would be much less likely to charge an unreasonable corkage fee. | | | |
| Daniel Bailey
Grape Puncher
Posts:730
| | 11/15/2007 12:51 PM |
| | To be honest I've dealt with much worse corkage policies then $30 per bottle for the first three bottles and then $65 per bottle after that. Personally, I'd be ok with it assuming the restaurant is of the highest echelon. There are worse policies out there (primarily the two bottle maximum corkage no matter how many people are dining) in my experience. | | | |
| dinwiddie
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2177
| | 11/15/2007 1:27 PM |
| Daniel,
We have all dealt with worse corkage policies, but I think the issue is one of attitude and custom. There are places that have similar corkage policies in DC, Corduroy changed its to two bottles max per table after an unfortunate incident with that was well discussed at the time it happened. However, DC has a vibrant and highly competative restaurant scene. We have dined an many of the best places in town in for our dinners, and for the most part find that all the restaurants are very willing to work with us when we want to have a wine dinner.
I remember the dinner where the restaurant provided a new glass to every person with each bottle opened, and we opened 10 bottles among the 7 of us. They charged us corkage for 4 bottles, at $20 per.
Aquarelle, Circle Bistro, and Corduroy all negotiated a fixed rate per person for a 5 or 6 course meal, corkage, tax and tip. They didn't care how many bottles we opened and tailored the meal to go with the wine we were bringing. A memorable dinner was at the now defunct Gabriel, where not only did they only charge us corkage for 4 of the 12 bottles we opened, they gave us a bottle from the list to go with it, and the manager spent the entire evening checking on our table to make sure we were being treated properly (and to taste each bottle we opened) Dino not only worked with us to make sure we had a great meal at a great price, they never have charged us a corkage fee, and we have opened lots of bottles there (of course with his great list, and fantastic prices, we also buy lots from his list whenever we eat there on our own). Roberto Donna's corkage policy at Labratorio, before they closed to renovate, was $15, bring whatever you want.
The point is, the corkage policy at Source is way out of line with the rest of the restaruants in town, and they are trying to compete at the highest level. I understand and respect restaurants that do not permit corkage, like Citronelle. What I do not understand is a rude attitude, a manager who contends he does not have any control over the policy, and a corkage policy that is way out of line with what is offered by other restaurants in town.
I might also add that the DC Crü is only one of quite a few groups that has the type of wine dinners we do. I remember one dinner at Lavandou in Cleveland Park where there were 5 other groups taking advantage of the restaurant's no corkage on Mondays policy, and all of them had at least 6 participants and were ordering full meals. We also tend to tip very well since we are availing ourself of the corkage option. Not to mention that the servers/sommeliers have always been encouraged to taste along with us.
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| Dave
Wine Thief
Posts:2899
| | 11/15/2007 10:30 PM |
| Dinwiddie, as usual, you hit the nail on the head. It is a competitive issue. Yes it is possible to pay more than $65 for corkage at an offline, but why bother when equally good restaurants charge zero corkage? I think the old adage, a fool and his money applies here. If I am going to a special dinner (as opposed to an offline), I view the world very differently.
You can add Cafe 15, Le Paradou, Komi and the Oval Room to the list of restaurants that will waive corkage for wine dinners. | | | |
| travelrep
Northern Virginia
Barrel Filler
Posts:1105
| | 11/16/2007 8:16 AM |
| Sorry guys but Mrs. T and I are out for tonight. Her father's still in the hospital and Mrs. T isn't in the mood to go out eating and drinking although that might be just what she needs right about now....
T-Rep | | | |
| norm herring
Grape Sorter
Posts:238
| | 11/16/2007 8:30 AM |
| Winoman-- with regrets to TREP it looks like we have room for your friends. No need to let me know if they can come if they can just bring them. Looking forward to seeing the rest of you tonight. Oh, by the way Tom Seitsema from the Post contacted me about the "Source" mess, after I emailed him.- his response--YEOW- Norm | | | |
| Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13711
| | 11/16/2007 8:55 AM |
| Posted By Daniel Bailey on 11/15/2007 12:51 PM
To be honest I've dealt with much worse corkage policies then $30 per bottle for the first three bottles and then $65 per bottle after that. Personally, I'd be ok with it assuming the restaurant is of the highest echelon. There are worse policies out there (primarily the two bottle maximum corkage no matter how many people are dining) in my experience.
Dan, I agree. I was willing to pay the $50 at CityZen to bring a bottle from home. Sadly, I was kind of disappointed in the food with all of the build up I had in my head before going there. But, for the right restaurant, with everything hitting on all cylinders, paying what I would normally consider whacko corkage can make sense.
That said, I agree with Dave & DW in that there is a vibrant restaurant community in DC and there's plenty of competition out there, particularly for folks who are BYOWing it. It becomes especially important with respect to larger gatherings with the DC Crü, IMO.
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| dinwiddie
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2177
| | 11/16/2007 8:57 AM |
| | I had heard that Tom was very good about responding to e-mails when he could. I would imagine he gets hundreds every day. | | | |
| JimmyV
Central Connecticut
Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5110
| | 11/16/2007 1:56 PM |
| | In addition to posting on local boards and e-mailing the newspaper, someone might want to contact the West Coast HQ about this. Seems like the "This is a West Coast operation and the policy is set there" excuse doesn't hold water since none of Puck's West Coast restaurants has a corkage policy of $30, $30, $65. At least, none that I know of. My guess is that Corporate HQ will take one look at your e-mail and say: "WTF is that lady out in DC doing to our new business?" | |
Beta testing a new signature. | |
| Winoman
Herndon VA
Grape Sorter
Posts:390
| | 11/17/2007 1:20 AM |
| | We had the best time. To all the DC cru who couldn't join us tonight you were missed and you missed out. The food, the wines, the incredible service and most of all the great company were - I think - the best we've experienced. Truly a fun and memorable occasion. I'll leave Dinwiddie to post the details on the wine and I'll perhaps post some pics at some point...but for now its time for bed! We're talking a food and beer get together for January and I'll say we're in without reservation - Beck's beer list looks first rate - beyond first rate - and the food and service and the great table all rate a repeat visit. Thank you Norm for putting this together and we had the greatest time talking with everyone. I had a very stressful week at work and after tonight it already seems like ancient history - and that in itself is quite an accomplishment. And I can't wait to see the result of our wine poll choosing favorites that Dinwiddie's sister Sarah most dilegently pressed everyone (particularly my non-comital wife!) on - and speaking of...Happy Birthday! - honored to share it with you! She fit right into our wine cru like a regular - get her an account! Dan and his wife were great company as well - hope he/they sign on as well. Later all.... | | | |
| dinwiddie
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2177
| | 11/17/2007 1:24 PM |
| We had a great time. The food was wonderful, the company sparkling, and the service first rate, highly efficient without being at all obtrusive. But the stars were definitely the wines. The sommelier and our waiter were ordered to try all the wines (it's a tough job but someone had to do it  ) and they definitely enjoyed it. I can't say enough about how they treated us. And I want to thank everyone for making my sister Sarah feel so welcome. She flew in from Florida just for dinner (I took her back to the airport this morning) and said that she had a wonderful time. She used to be in the restaurant business and was very impressed with the design and decor of Brassierie Beck and said that the kitchen (which was open and right next to our table since we were given the Chef's Table) was very well run, extremely professional. All the staff came by to wish her a Happy Birthday (and the candle in the sorbet was cute on the nicely decorated birthday plate) and seemed very sincere in wanting us to have a great time.
First the meal. We started by sharing a bunch of appetizers. We ordered the carcuterie plate (wonderful country pate included), the roulade of duck confit and pomme puree, steak tartar, pork belly and rice beans, (and maybe one more?)Â
Entrees around the table (which everyone was sharing bites of back and forth) included the Beef Carbonnade, several orders of the Grilled Beefsteak with Green Peppercorns, Cognac Sauce and Frites (oh my what wonderful frites) an absolutely to die for Black Cod, and the Lamb Shank (huge) with white beans.
Desserts included the bread pudding (huge, rich and just too much to finish) the Belgian waffle with apple and cream, an absolutely stunning citrus and cilantro sorbet, and the beer sundae (boy is that good).
But the wines were, as I said, the star. (Please forgive me, but my notes are difficult to read, and very criptic as we were having too much fun.) As Winoman said, Sarah made everyone choose their first and second favorite wines.
For starters we had the NV Francois Billion Brut Champagne as we were waiting .
The line up then included, in order of drinking:
2005 altanuta Pinot Grigio (fruity, crisp, but without a lot of muscle. Sarah described it as a 14 yo young lady just starting to come into her beauty)
2003 Neal Chardonney (Easily one of the favorites of the night) not at all oaky, with notes fo grapefruit and walnuts(?) that was spectacular. I really wish Mark Neal was still making this wine, I'd buy it by the case.
1999 Barone Ricasoli Toscana Casalferro (well balanced, with plums and vanilla flavors, and very well integrated tannins)
1997 Luciano Sandrone Barolo Cannubi Boschis(plums, berrys, leather and sooo good)
2001 Mocali Brunello di Montalcino (another of the wines that was choses as a first or second favorite by several people) blackberrys, licorice, a very muscular and wonderful wine.
1999 Banfi Brunello di Montalcino Poggio all'Oro RiservaÂ(wonderful wine, but I wouldn't open another one for at least 5 years if I were Norm) that will be spectacular given time.
1997 Flaccianello Della Pieve (I can't read my notes, but it sure was good)
1990 Piper-Heidsieck Brut Champagne Rare (One of the consensus wines of the night) light but fresh and crisp with a toasty, nutty, minerality that was wonderful.
And finally, a NV Wilson Creek Almond Champagne (a very interesting wine, but since I do not like almonds at all, not to my personal taste, but well received by everyone, especially the Pastry chef who then brought us a Huckleberry dessert that was to die for, but Norm will have to describe it since by then I was so full I could only take a very small taste)Â
We ended with French press coffee.
We didn't decamp the restaurant until after midnight, thankfully none of us having to drive (or at least not far.)
The shock of the night however, was the price. We had them split the bill into fourths and when they came, none of us could beleive how little it was. (I'll let Norm explain why the corkage was so cheap) Needless to say we left huge tips because the night was fantastic.
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| norm herring
Grape Sorter
Posts:238
| | 11/17/2007 7:15 PM |
| Wow-- It was a great night. The table was the best in the house. The action in the kitchen was non-stop as the place was packed from the opening bell to just before midnight.
The Billion Grand Cru was a great warm up for the spectacular wines to follow. Dinwiddie got the order and sense of taste just about right. The Banfi does need years to unwind and it will get it as I brought it back from Montalcino in my suitcase along with 5 of his brothers.
I had never had the Mocali and really enjoyed it as it was easily approachable, good nose of ripe fruit, balance in the mouth and good finish.
My favorite was the 99 Barone- Ricasoli- It came between two really tasty wines but I wanted more of the Ricasoli and like Oliver Twist I asked for more only to be disappointed to hear it was gone.
The Neal was gone too soon and soon will be all gone unless Mark and Gove start to make it agian as it's from a few years ago and Din and I lamented our dwindling stock.
Sarah-- I'm not sure she could be realted to Din as she's smart, attractive, speaks good French, knows wines for the flavor without any apparant effort, and seemlessly fit into the group from the first sip of Champagne. And speaking of Champagne the 90 Piper- Heidseick- lusch ,aromatic, gone all too soon but it was only our 9th bottle of the night and we were all going strong.
The restauant service was exceptional- Thor, the bar manager spent most of the night around our table making sure fresh glasses we avaialbe for every new taste, and inquiring which wines were to be served when, keeping the later champagnes on ice until it was their time. Ihsen was our server from Tunisia, and he was ever present but not in the way or oversolicitous. His recommendations and explantions of the dishes were expert and accurate. The special dishes like the steak tartare, or the beer ice cream dessert were delicious and the pastry chef's rendition of a huckleberry claufutie was beyond expectation. We did not order the claufutie but he personally brought it over and served it and discussed our wines and the evening as he saw us from his vantage point in the kitchen.
When I looked at my watch for the first time as the evening was winding down I couldn't believe it was almost midnight. We started at 7:30 with the Champange and never felt rushed but rather  the time was just perfect, and when coffee was served the time seemed to have begun again as it was like it had stood still.
Din mentioned the bill and we all looked at each other in confusion - They charged us $25 for corkage on the 10 bottles, over 80 glasses placed , removed and reset. Not $25 per bottle - $25 for the night. Now I know the folks at Beck's - but I never expected this kind of exceptional treatment. There was one other consideration I should disclose.
The General Manger from " Source" had called Beck's after we cancelled at Source and I had told him that we were going to Beck's. He asked Beck's to serve us two complimentary bottles of Champagne on Wolfgang's tab in an effort to relieve some of my distress with their sommelier. Because we had our own Champagne I asked that the gift be applied to the corkage which Beck's did. I consider the Source manager's actions a class act and I'll go back and give Source another crack at my business, but the major credit goes to Beck's management for the great evening of fine food, incredible wines and great friends to share them with.
To fully understand the great night- as a group we all agreed we need to come back as soon as we can in January to again sit at the Chef's table and have the tasting menu- and the beers to go with them. I'll plan it and I'm sure they will be glad to see us as we were very generous because the night required it.
Dan and Wendy- glad you came and I look for you on the board--Norm | | | |
| dinwiddie
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2177
| | 11/17/2007 8:28 PM |
| Sarah-- I'm not sure she could be realted to Din as she's smart, attractive, speaks good French, knows wines for the flavor without any apparant effort, and seemlessly fit into the group from the first sip of Champagne.
   Yep, that's my baby sister. Pretty good in Italian too, although that one word did stump everybody. | | | |
| scottj
Houston, TX
Grape Fermenter
Posts:559
| | 11/19/2007 10:58 PM |
| Posted By norm herring on 11/17/2007 7:15 PM
To fully understand the great night- as a group we all agreed we need to come back as soon as we can in January to again sit at the Chef's table and have the tasting menu- and the beers to go with them. I'll plan it and I'm sure they will be glad to see us as we were very generous because the night required it.
I'm in DC for meetings from Monday, Jan 14 - Friday, Jan 18. This night sounded great and I'd love to join you all for a return vist, if the timing works !
Scott
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| Winoman
Herndon VA
Grape Sorter
Posts:390
| | 11/20/2007 12:17 AM |
| | Lets do it! You do drink Belgian Ales I assume.... | | | |
| scottj
Houston, TX
Grape Fermenter
Posts:559
| | 11/20/2007 6:59 AM |
| Posted By Winoman on 11/20/2007 12:17 AM
Lets do it! You do drink Belgian Ales I assume.... Not a lot of experience with them, but some. Almost all good times, except for one bad experience with Leffe Triple ...
Scott
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| Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13711
| | 11/20/2007 9:39 AM |
| Mrs. TJ is SO BUMMED that we could not make this. She said, had she known this was where the Crü was going to go, she would have done anything and everything to change up our schedules so we could attend. She's been wanting to go there for some time and after I showed her the thread here she is just SO BUMMED!
We're in for the January thing, whether it is for beer or wine, or both. Just please let's not have it on the 12th of Jan as we're already fully committed for that date. | |
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