kimber  
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1254
 | | 09-21-2005 11:53 PM |
| I know there are numerous posts on SF restaurant recs but it has become too difficult to search. We will be in SF the first weekend of November and want to take my brother in law to a very nice dinner.
So, can folks recommend the top 3 current dinner destinations in the city (not Napa/Sonoma)? Cost is not an issue but we don't want to dress formally. Sport coat is perfectly fine.
TIA! | | |
|
|
JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 09-22-2005 12:11 AM |
| For the highest end dining in the City proper I would go to the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton - although I am not totally enamoured with any of the City's highest end restaurants. They all fall short of perfection. The Dining Room is your best bet because the best chef in the City is Ron Siegel.www.ritzcarlton.com/hotels/san_francisco/dining/default.asp
One rung down, I would go to Myth.www.mythsf.com
For restaurants that are one of the best/the best of their type in the nation try A16 (Southern Italian) www.a16sf.com and The Slanted Door (Vietnamese Cuisine done in the fashion of California Cuisine) www.slanteddoor.com
| | | |
|
whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 09-22-2005 12:28 AM |
| By far, my favorite restaurant in the city is Fleur de Lys (coat is suggested, tie is not). (Alcasian)
I don't think coats are required at La Folie, which is also excellent. (French)
I haven't been to Acquerello or Michael Mina and I don't know what the dress codes are like at either place, but I know several people who rave about both. (Italian and CA French/Fusion, respectively)
a | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
|
David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts: 15756
| | 09-22-2005 12:34 AM |
| I don't think one should myth Myth.
I also wouldn't myth Michael Minath. | | | |
|
JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 09-22-2005 12:46 AM |
| Fleur de Lys is old style French with nuances of Keller's Alsace and oriental cuisine. Its not a solely Alsatian restaurant. Its wine list is also egregiously priced. Even assuming cost is irrelevant in 2005 Fleur de Lys has difficulty even making the top five of restaurants in the City. Seating can be problematic (especially if you are an out of towner)
Acquerello provides excellent Northern Italian cuisine but the room is dated and is located in a somewhat unusual location (Polk Gulch). I have not been in about two years but have reservations for next week so if Northern Italian is of interest and you want more information let me know. Great wine list.
La Folie is a very fine restaurant which finally has an interior that comes at least somewhat close to Passot's cuisine. Wine list needs work. (Disclosure I've represented entities associated with La Folie).
Michael Mina has great food but service problems abound and the interior (even after dropping five million on the makeover) is less than ideal. Based on the service problems we encountered last month it will be at best years before we return. | | | |
|
Randy Sloan
St. Helena
Wine Labeler
Posts: 3989
| | 09-22-2005 12:52 AM |
| Definitely Myth.
And don't call it "San Fran" . | | Randy Sloan
Match Vineyards | |
|
ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts: 11169
| | 09-22-2005 01:15 AM |
| | Our favorite reliable place is Fringale for great confit. Second is Plumpjack's. | | | |
|
kimber
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1254
| | 09-22-2005 02:42 AM |
| Good timing....this months Gourmet magazine is the American Restaurant issue. They list the following SF choices as tops (alphabetically):
Americano
Bix 56
Bocadillos
The Dining Room
Farallon
Fish
La Suite
Limon
Michael Mina
Tadich Grill
Several have been mentioned. Thoughts on the others? | | | |
|
whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 09-22-2005 03:09 AM |
| I've gotta defend my favorite restaurant
Quote:
Fleur de Lys is old style French with nuances of Keller's Alsace and oriental cuisine. Its not a solely Alsatian restaurant.
True. It is mostly Alsatian but there are other influences (including Oriental and Austrian) at work. And, again, true, it is not CA or "new" French (except, perhaps, for certain elements of the awesome vegetarian tasting menu).
Quote:
Its wine list is also egregiously priced.
I don't really agree with this. Lots of the wines on the list are seriously overpriced. But some are not ($80 for a Dirler Grand Cru Sommerberg Tokay Pinot Gris, for example, the last time I was there). They have a $35 corkage fee and they allow people to bring wines that are already on their list. They also frequently waive corkage, esp if you order a bottle from their list and then open your own. I would agree with the premise that there are several better and more well priced lists in San Francisco (esp. for CA wines) but the food at those places isn't nearly up to this level.
Quote:
Even assuming cost is irrelevant in 2005 Fleur de Lys has difficulty even making the top five of restaurants in the City.
Well, as I said, I haven't been to Acquerello or Michael Mina (or Masa's or The Dining Room at the Ritz Carleton, for that matter). So, I guess I really can't claim with certainty that I would put it above #5 in the city. But, the people I go to dinner with frequently, who have been to those restaurants consistently indicate to me (via comments about whatever we are eating or via direct comparison) that I would not prefer them and that nor do they. Of course, I do tend to prefer more classic French cooking to newer fusion style cooking or CA French.
Quote:
Seating can be problematic (especially if you are an out of towner)
I haven't had a problem, but I have been asked to wait 10-15 minutes in the bar when I showed up on time for a reservation -- I didn't really let it bother me, though.
Anyway, wherever you go, have a great time. For casual places I love:
Fringale- Claims to be Basque, is actually more Loire-like; Good wine list, with some serious "reserve" wines (eg. 1982 Mouton for $800); Very moderately priced with nothing more than $21 on the menu; downside: it is a bit cramped.
Piperade- Basque with slight CA hints; Very good wine list heavy on Spanish stuff, lighter on CA stuff; Just a couple of dollars more than Fringale; downside: I think the head server is a bit cold and unhelpful.
Town Hall- New Orleans/New CA Good but shorter wine list heavy on CA, including some rarer stuff; Just a few dollars more than Piperade; downside: 2 bottle BYO max, there was a bottled water incident at the VC 2nd anniversary. | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
|
whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 09-22-2005 03:15 AM |
| Quote:
Good timing....this months Gourmet magazine is the American Restaurant issue. They list the following SF choices as tops (alphabetically):
Americano
Bix 56
Bocadillos
The Dining Room
Farallon
Fish
La Suite
Limon
Michael Mina
Tadich Grill
Several have been mentioned. Thoughts on the others?
Bocadillos is the tapas version of Piperade. Really nice casual place.
Limon is Peruvian which they say is the next big thing. I'm going in a couple of weeks, I can give you an report. I've heard some really good things. Very reasonably priced.
Can't really help with the others other than hearing that Farallon and Bix 56 are supposedly good.
a | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
|
Winegeek
San Francisco
Barrel Racker
Posts: 1525
| | 09-22-2005 05:08 AM |
| Quote:
Good timing....this months Gourmet magazine is the American Restaurant issue. They list the following SF choices as tops (alphabetically):
Americano
Bix 56
Bocadillos
The Dining Room
Farallon
Fish
La Suite
Limon
Michael Mina
Tadich Grill
Several have been mentioned. Thoughts on the others?
A few thoughts: never heard of Americano; Fish is in Sausalito and is closed for remodeling; Bocadillos and Limon are great but both are pretty casual; Tadich doesn't belong on anybody's list of best restaurants; Farallon is all about seafood and can be quite good - it can also be mediocre - but it would definitely be a fun place to bring out-of-towners - the decor is over the top. Haven't been to La Suite but have had people rave about it and others who will never go back - are you feeling adventurous? Others - especially Jones - are in a better position to comment on Michael Mina and The Dining Room at The Ritz than I am.
Having said all that ..... if you can get a reservation at Slanted Door that would probably be my first choice. The food is good, the views are great and it's fun to wander around the Ferry Building.
Richard | | | |
|
whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 09-22-2005 06:25 AM |
| I love Slanted Door. I should have included that on my list of more casual restaurants to go to. The wine list is a German-lover's wet dream, too; easily the best wine list for Germans I've ever seen.
Still, I wouldn't rate the food as highly as at several other much more expensive restaurants in the city.
a | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
|
JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 09-22-2005 01:27 PM |
| Americano is the restaurant at the Hotel Vitale - a "boutique" hotel on the Embarcadero. Food is ok. Wine list is passable. The bar scene is completely nuts and spills over into the restaurant. The outside area is very nice but you can't eat out there so unless you are working the bar for action it does not do you any good. Attractive modern interior. Service is a decided work in progress - if you are going to have an open kitchen then you need to deliver food before it gets lukewarm because the diners can see their orders cooling right in front of them.
Bix is a decent place for late night dining or drinking/trolling. Not a value. I don't know how in the world a reputable magazine would list Bix as one of the top restaurants in the City.
Bocadillos is very casual. Its right next to the Bubble Lounge so the bridge and tunnel factor can be a problem. I enjoy dropping in there after dining at Piperade (the higher end restaurant owned by GH around the corner) in order to keep the night going but otherwise unless you live nearby its not worth going out of your way for for dinner. Wine list mediocre.
As stated before, the Dining Room is your best bet for haute cuisine.
Farallon has been surviving on its interior and tourists for years. Franz should be able to do much better then he does.
Chad Callahan's Fish (he was the chef at Masa's who did his best to run it into the ground - Siegel eventually saved it once they got rid of Callahan) is allegedly closed for repairs. There is speculation that they may be pulling a Tartare however. Fish is in Sausalito not the City.
La Suite wants to be the City's Balthazar. I really wish it was but it is not anywhere close to Balthazar. French brasserie cuisine. Pretty good wine list. Service on multiple times has been offensive and we won't be going back. Not cheap. Located in an apartment complex where The Slanted Door used to be.
Michael Mina should be as good as The French Laundry. It isn't even close (and even Bauer had to backtrack on his initial enthusiasm). Its has myriad problems some of which were of sufficient magnitude that i wrote a letter to Rajat Parr about them. While I appreciated his apology its going to be quite some time before I can get other people to return to Michael Mina. Its still a great restaurant but it should be so much better.
I agree with Richard that Tadich Grill should be nowhere near this list.
If you don't want high end dining and instead want to try out some of the latest top restaurants then consider Maverick and Range. Maverick was so good that after having saturday night dinner our entire group returned the next day for Sunday Brunch. Unfortunately they are both in the Mission. Avoid like the plague Home on Union. | | | |
|
JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 09-22-2005 01:30 PM |
| | If you don't rate the quality of The Slanted Door's cuisine as highly as other top restaurants then that indicates you don't give enough credit to Vietnamese cuisine. You could move The Slanted Door to Vietnam and it would remain one of if not the best restaurants in the country. Temple Bar in Saigon and Emperor in Hanoi would be its only competition. On a relative basis, The Slanted Door is arguably the finest restaurant in the City. | | | |
|
JimmyV
Central Connecticut
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5168
|
| 09-22-2005 01:36 PM |
| Quote:
Tadich doesn't belong on anybody's list of best restaurants
Yes it does. But those people all lived in the 1920's, and are DEAD.
I agree that Farallon can be very average.
Skwid, SFWine and I had dinner at the Dining Room last year. I think it was just after the new chef took over. The meal and service were both spectacular. My only complaint is that the setting and decor are so...'Ritz Carlton' for lack of a better word. I like a little more edge when dining in a big city.
No one has mentioned Fifth Floor. Has it fallen that far down the list?
La Follie is excellent and cozy. (Note: I haven't seen the new design that Jones refers to.)
It's been many, many years since I dined at Acquerello, but I enjoyed it immensely. | | | Beta testing a new signature. | |
|
JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 09-22-2005 01:42 PM |
| The interior at the Dining Room is the restaurant's failing. Everything else works but the interior (and believe it or not they recently updated it) is the problem. Its very nice but rather staid.
Fifth Floor has a great room and Perello's cuisine even from her days at Charles Nob Hill has always been wonderful. Some people like to denigrate her efforts because she is young and female - an unfortunate phenomenon especially in San Francisco. Regardless, its not one of the top two restaurants in the City anymore the way it was a few years ago when Gras was there. | | | |
|
Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts: 13767
| | 09-22-2005 01:51 PM |
| I really, really, really like Fleurs de Lys.
But Myth and A16 and Slanted Door and some of the other reccos are on my 'When I get back there to SF' list. Normally, I'd not be toowild about going to a restaurant just because it is in a Ritz Carlton....But, I have dined at Maestro in NoVa, so I should just banish the thought from my brain, eh? | | | www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
|
David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts: 15756
| | 09-22-2005 02:35 PM |
| What is happening (if anything) at Jeanty at Jacks?
Other than a small initial splash I haven't heard a word. Is it really "that bad"? | | | |
|
skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5452
| | 09-22-2005 04:48 PM |
| Quote:
What is happening (if anything) at Jeanty at Jacks?
Other than a small initial splash I haven't heard a word. Is it really "that bad"?
I've been there once and wouldn't call it "bad". There is alot of competition to be a very good/great restaurant in San Francisco. We really take our dining seriously here. | | | |
|
JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 09-22-2005 05:02 PM |
| | Its not bad but there is not much about it that draws me back. I use it mainly for lunch and even then quite rarely. | | | |
|