Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13698
 | | 01/12/2004 5:41 PM |
| Quote:
...If filters as simple as coffee filters don't change the taste of the wine then why do Parker, Kermit Lynch, Robert Kacher, Helen Turley, John Kongsgaard, Leroy and hundreds of other importers and wineproducers prattle on about unfiltered wine. If there is no flavor change then why not filter everything and get rid of that pesky sediment?....
Hey Jones-- I thought the whole bit about unfiltered wine was to allow whatever residual sediment/etc was in the wine to stay with the wine in the bottle to allow it to continue to bottle age with the particulate matter still in it, thus allowing the wine to further develop. I would not think filtering at the time of pour (assuming of course a filter that would not impart any new flavors -- if such is even available) would be a bad thing. I mean, isn't letting the sediment to settle essentially the same thing (as filtering -- again assuming a filter that would not change the wine were available) Am I wrong in these interpretations?
Also, I don't think I'd ever filter something through anything, much less a coffee filter for fear that it might change the way the wine tastes as it is likely to do IMO. | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts:8568
| | 01/12/2004 5:48 PM |
| | There are lots of theories about why filtering a bottle harms the wine (just as there are multiple filtering methods, Kissleguhr etc.). The main theory that I subscribe too is that the filtering strips out flavor from the young wine - i.e what is left on the filter pad is part of the "good stuff". (This assumes that the wine itself is stable and is not in need of filtering to specifically correct a defect in the wine.) Its not that the wine is helped as it ages by interacting with the sediment - a young unfiltered wine is better than the same wine filtered from the get go. What you are talking about is the theory that Champagne improves as it ages on its lees (lees is another word for sediment). | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13698
| | 01/12/2004 5:51 PM |
| | OK, I can see that. | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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DukeRiley
McMinnville, OR
Barrel Racker
Posts:1995
| | 01/12/2004 6:24 PM |
| TJ, to add to Jones's comments, I don't think anyone has devised a filter that can tell the "bad" stuff from the "good" stuff. If the filter is taking out bad stuff, it's very likely taking out good stuff too.
If done properly, decanting will result in the loss of a very minimal amount of wine. | |
Heater Allen Brewing
www.heaterallen.com | |
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Dick W.
Barrel Filler
Posts:1081
| | 01/12/2004 6:31 PM |
| landshark:
i seem to recall that wire screen filters were put in the same category as cheesecloth/coffee filters, that it also changes the flavour of the wine. i may be remembering that incorrectly from a previous decanting/filtering thread, but that was my general gist. i have on occasion used a wire filter when i planned inappropriately (didn't stand up for long enough) and didn't follow boardo's advice of just saying no. it was for the last portion of the bottle where the sediment hadn't fully settled. it was drank after other glasses, so the taste buds were sufficiently numbed that i didn't really notice any difference. | | | |
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John Chasse
Grape Stomper
Posts:171
| | 01/12/2004 8:57 PM |
| I just read something by Jancis Robinson on this in the last week. I believe her take was that she didn't trust silver-plated, or other "plated" screens for use in filtering wine. She thought that the plating could "react" with the wine, altering its flavor. However, she does use a very fine stainless steel mesh filter and she could not detect any perceptable taste difference when filtered this way.
Now if her palate can't detect a difference, I'm guessing that I can't. Trouble is I can't seem to locate a good fine stainless filter. She mentioned that Screwpull makes one, but I can't find it. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 01/12/2004 9:16 PM |
| | Gold and platinum won't react with wine. I believe palladium also will not react. I know of no platinum or palladium plated filters, but I have seen gold plated filters for sale. I don't know if the mesh is fine enough. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15756
| | 01/12/2004 11:14 PM |
| This is going to be my general rule #1 on decanting:
a. If a bottle is less than 8 years old either don't decant or splash decant. Don't worry about sediment.
b. Bottles over 8 years old stand up for at least 6 hours before decanting. Then decant slowely watching the neck for sediment to appear. Then stop.
bb. Don't filter the stuff. It is a sign you don't know what the [censored] you are doing!
c. If a bottle over 8 years old displays sediment in the wine JUST SAY NO. | | | |
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love_cab_chard
Master of Wine
Posts:12467
| | 01/13/2004 3:12 AM |
| | Coffee filters are for bad coffee, not wine. | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 01/13/2004 6:47 PM |
| Thought this thread had died, but coming back I see it was a lovely discussion..
Filtering. Interesting enough, when I originally tasted the wine att the shop in November, the used one of those pourers with a plastic mesh screen. Still a lot of sediment was in the glass. The taste was compelling enough for me to buy the bottle. I would never use coffee filters or cheesecloth for filtering anything except coffee or paint because one contains bleached wood product, the other contains soap residue.
The bottle. Stood up' for about 10 hours before opening. Wax covering over cork had turned brittle. Like glass. I basically had to chip it off without moving the bottle and upsetting the sediment.
The top of the cork was pretty soft, but aftere about 5 mm, it was fine. Used a waiter's corscrew, got out after one tear.
Decanted pouring in the same direction that the bottle had been laying. Good thing, as the sediment was clinging to the side pretty well. The' tiniestt amount of sediment made itt into glass, but you had to be looking for it.
The wine was awesome. 90-91 ormbee points. I would think that it does not have much longer before it turns south, but it still had a ton of fruit in it. Very well Balanced
Whoo - Hoo. On a day when I tasted the '95-'97 opus one vertical ( disappointing ) a great champagne ( henriot ) and a good SB ( thornbury) this was definately the wine of the night. Tasted with a chocolate tart from my favorite pastry chef ( Fleur de Cocoa in Los Gatos, the chef, Pascal Janvier is a genius. Don't ask questions, just go there)
Thanks for all the help.
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 01/13/2004 6:56 PM |
| Forgot.
I always pour the last bit into a flute. Helps me insure that I am not missing too much good stuff, and allows me to stop pouring into the decanter before the sediment hits. The croft bottle was actually pretty light, so it was easy to see the sediment coming out. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15756
| | 01/13/2004 7:00 PM |
| Quote:
they used one of those pourers with a plastic mesh screen.
What shop was this? | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 01/13/2004 7:03 PM |
| Quote:
Quote:
they used one of those pourers with a plastic mesh screen.
What shop was this?
Grapevine in Willow Glen. I really like the store. I have enjoyed all the wines I have bought there. They really helped me get into Red Burgundies and Ports, but I was not a fan of the pour on the port. | | | |
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GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 01/14/2004 1:41 AM |
| I use a stainless steel filter if all other precautions fail. You can catch cork bits early and sediment late, so I don't use the filter for the whole bottle. I would not use a coffee filter.
I used an AhSoh for over 20 years - much better than a corkscrew. Now I use a rabbit knock-off. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 01/14/2004 4:23 AM |
| i have a stainless steel filter as well, but it doesn't screen out everything. the smallest bits still get by. i can live with these.
by the way i just got done in the cellar standing up about 12 wines for future consumption | | | |
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