Corkage
Grape Puncher
Posts:975
 | | 01/10/2003 3:49 PM |
| I've seen a post elsewhere, but would somebody mind explaining port. What is it, what is ruby, tawny and vintage (well I know what vintage port IS, but you know), what is good port to cook with, etc.
Thanks | | | |
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jaimetown
DC area
Wine Bottler
Posts:3370
| | 01/10/2003 4:27 PM |
| I'll get the ball rolling on this, and stick with Tawny port. Tawny port is port that has been gone through extended aging, and as a result has a brownish color. The primary flavors I usually detect in a tawny is roasted nuts, caramels, cedar and orange peels to name a few, and the overall profile tends to be sweet. I love a good tawny with a cigar once in a while.
Unlike Vintage port or unfiltered LBV, they do not improve with age. However, once you've opened them, they retain their character for up to a month (in fridge). You can find good tawnys for under $30 from Portugal and Australia.
Hardy's Whisker's Blake Port ($15) - good tawny to start out with, a bit on the sweet side. From Australia.
Ch. Reynella Old Caves Tawny ($20) - more intense and complex than the Hardy's, also from Australia.
Taylor Fladgate 10 Year Tawny ($30) - a step up - very elegant and smooth.
Graham's 10 Year Tawny ($30) - more of the orange peel quality here, still quite good.
You can also find 20 Year Tawnys for around $50, and a lot of people say this is the optimum tawny (read: don't spend the $$$ to get 30 or 40 years) for them.
Other tawny names to look for: Fonseca, Dow's Boardroom, Warre's Nimrod.
Sidenote: If you want a good dessert wine under $20, you may also want to check out Chamber's Muscat and Tokay - they tend to be more floral and less nutty.
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Dick W.
Barrel Filler
Posts:1081
| | 01/10/2003 8:12 PM |
| Another obvious difference is that LBV and VP is vintage based, and VP is only declared in "good" years. eg., 2000, 1997, 1994, 1985, 1977 to name a few. as for cooking with port, i was unaware that people cooked with port. it will be interesting to see if anyone uses port to cook, i'd guess if anything, possibly tawny. i'd hate to waste good VP cooking.
(edit:) forgot to add what is one of my faves, the 85 graham. still available that i can see, ranging from a low of $68 on up. | | | |
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 01/10/2003 8:42 PM |
| This could take a while. I will write you something once I get home from work if the question has not been fully answered.
As far as Port and cooking, I love it. I make a dish with Filet's stuffed with Stilton and Walnuts that is served with a Port sauce that is fantastic!
TCK | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Destemmer
Posts:50
| | 01/10/2003 8:46 PM |
| jaimetown-
You mention a number of 10 year tawnies in your post, but not Churchill's. Do you (any of you) have any opinions on this bottling? I'm asking only because I know it's on the shelf of my lws for about $24...
cheers,
tbg | | | |
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Dick W.
Barrel Filler
Posts:1081
| | 01/10/2003 8:56 PM |
| | do you use VP TCK, such as 85 graham or 94 fonseca. if so, i'm in awe of your port collection!! | | | |
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Joseph Bembry
Wine Lover
Posts:4832
| | 01/10/2003 8:57 PM |
| If you like Taylor Fladgate 10 yr. tawny, you should try the 20 yr. tawny. It has much more length and this amazing re-emergence. Great stuff. Usually just under $40.
jb | | | |
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jaimetown
DC area
Wine Bottler
Posts:3370
| | 01/10/2003 9:02 PM |
| bugguy,
I haven't had a chance to taste, much less see Churchill's tawny's around here, so I can't comment on it. Let me know if you bite on it, and post TNs. | | | |
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 01/10/2003 9:16 PM |
| | No, a Tawny works just fine Frankie. No need to be in awe, my port knowledge is much more impressive then my port collection. | | | |
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David Walker
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2284
| | 01/11/2003 4:26 PM |
| | Hopefully you guys don't forget to discuss Colheita port. ZekeBoston introduced me to this at our Dec BWC tasting. | | | |
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 01/11/2003 4:56 PM |
| True Portuguese Port, or Porto as it will appear on the label, is a fortified wine that is made by pouring clear brandy into a finished wine. Without the addition of brandy the wine was thought to not have been "sturdy enough" to make the trip to England. Although port is Portuguese, its roots are tied to Britain. The British basically created the port trade to take the place of French claret that became difficult to acquire during the many French-English wars. This is why most port houses have English names such as Graham and Warre (the oldest port house created in 1670).
Port is made in the Douro region of Portugal. It can have as many as 80 different grapes legally in the blend. The following is a description of the most important port styles.
White Port : Made from white grapes, this takes on a golden color and is often served as an aperitif.
Ruby Port : This is a non-vintage style this is a fruity inexpensive and simple style that will spend on average three years in wood before release.
Tawny Port : These are ports that spend an extended amount of time in wood and take on a brownish "tawnied" color. When they have an age on them the number represents the average age of the wines that went into the blend. Tawny Port is often noted for its nutty character. I find it to be a great compliment to a good cigar.
Vintage Character Port : This is a non vintage port that attempts to taste like a mature vintage port. This is actually a high Quality ruby port that is very rich and tasty. Be advised that these wines usually carry Proprietary names such as Grahams Six Grapes Port.
Late Bottled Vintage Port : This wine is from a specific year, just not usually a great one. This wine will receive extended oak exposure, from 4 to 6 years and can be consumed upon release.
Colheita Port : This is a style that Nieport has cornered the market on. It is best described as a Tawny port from a specific vintage. It receives extended wood time to soften and mellow the wine.
Vintage Port : A single vintage port that is usually bottled after two years. This causes it to still have a lot of the harsh tannins that are removed through wood ageing in other styles to remain in the bottle. This wine will develop improve and age for 20 years or more. BEWARE of the sediment!
Single Quinta Vintage Port : This is Vintage Port from a Single Vineyard. Often they are made in good years but not in great years when there wine is used in the Vintage Port.
Port Should Be served at the same temperature as Hearty Red wine. However, I like some Tawny Ports a little chilled with a Cigar.
Vintage Port is made only when the Harvest is deemed good enough to warrant a vintage to be declared. This Happens on Average four out of every ten years.
I hope this info helps.
TCK
I learned much of this from the "Dummies" book. It's a really good source. | | | |
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Budman
Master of Wine
Posts:11812
| | 01/11/2003 6:04 PM |
| TCK,
Thanks. Good synopsis. Plenty of good info to chew on. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Picker
Posts:17
| | 01/13/2003 2:04 AM |
| Great info, thanks TCK!
I have read that you can keep a bottle (once opened) for 2-4 weeks, any special considerations to helping to preserve over this time? (same bottle, vacu-seal, etc)
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 01/13/2003 2:08 PM |
| Tawny Port can be kept for a good amount of time in the fridge. Ruby doesn't hold up as long and I vintage never seems to make it to day two.  | | | |
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Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
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Corkage
Grape Puncher
Posts:975
| | 01/15/2003 4:04 AM |
| | Great info! Thanks for the posts. | | | |
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wineismylife
Arlington, TX
Master of Wine
Posts:11858
| | 10/02/2003 4:39 PM |
| i have two additional questions concerning Port so I thought I would revive this thread.
The first question concerns aged Ports sold at retail. It is very common to see older Vintage Port, typically laying down, in a retail store without any temperature and humidty control other than the ambient HVAC in the store. Does Vintage Port age properly in a setting such as this? Since it is a fortified wine can it age properly in an environment such as this or does it need the same temperature and humdity controls as a hearty red wine to age properly?
The second question concerns aging Vintage Port in .375ml bottles versus .750ml bottles. Does Vintage Port age quicker in .375ml bottles? By way of example, if I am holding both .375ml and .750ml bottles of 2000 Grahams Vintage Port and I intend to drink my first .750ml bottle in the year 2020 would the .375ml be equally aged and drinking about the same at 2020? If not, how much earlier would you typically drink a .375ml versus the .750ml?
TIA
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Joe
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Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone. | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 10/03/2003 2:55 AM |
| Wiml,
Personally I would treat all vintage ports as I would any other wine. If it ain't lying down in a temp controlled room, I wouldn't risk it. However if it is a Tawny or Ruby and even some LBV's I would consider it. | | | |
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wineismylife
Arlington, TX
Master of Wine
Posts:11858
| | 10/03/2003 1:03 PM |
| Thank you Jeremy.
Anybody else? | |
Joe
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Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone. | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Stomper
Posts:152
| | 10/23/2003 9:47 AM |
| Hello all!
I'm bumping this thread as I find wineismylife's question on bottle size interesting and there obviously is a lot of know how around here.
Port ages, to the best of my knowledge like any other wine, despite the higher alcohol content. The reactons and polymerizations occur even in the presence of alcohol.
I know it has been proven time and again that wine ages faster in smaller bottles, where the surface to air ratio is greater. However, bottle age is a reductive process, that is, not in reaction with oxygen.
My new to the board (kinda techie) question then:
Why does the oxygen in the bottle affect the speed of the ageing process? Is it because the reductive agent must oxidise in giving away its electrons? 
Cheers,
MRQS | | | |
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