Different and from what I understand not closely related. Others here could give you the biological differences. I think someone from UC Davis (Vitis) would be more knowledgeble.

Petite Syrah and Syrah are both long aging when made in a certain style. Like all wines your mileage may vary.

I used to think that they weren't closely related, until I read this article yesterday.
Petite Sirah

In it, the author states:

Quote:

---

Recent genetic research has revealed that much of what is deemed Petite Sirah in America is actually a grape called Durif, a relatively obscure cross that includes the great Rhône grape Syrah or Shiraz.

---

Now I don't know what to think.

Syrah I like.

Petite Syrah could remove the paint from my brushes, in my opinion. I'm 100% SURE that this is a palate issue - as in, mine isn't developed enough. I could tell the Petite Syrah I had was a good wine. It was just so bloody tannic that I couldn't enjoy it.

I agree with you Lilac, I do not like Petite Sirah. There is something about it's flavor that turns me off. In fact if there is to much of it blended with a Zinfandel I start to dislike the Zin. I am so in tune with the flavor that I can instantly spot it.

Dusted off some books:

From Oz Clarke: Durif is a crossing of Syrah and Peloursin. Petite Sirah may or may not be related. Most wine labelled as Petite Sirah in California is infact Durif - which is also grown under it's own name in Australia.

From Jancis: DNA fingerprinting of California's Petite Sirah show that the name has been applied to four distinct varieties: Durif, Syrah, Peloursin, and a Durif/Peloursin crossing.

Sotheby's makes no mention of Durif, Petite Sirah or Peloursin.

In other words, if the experts can get their facts straight, how can we be expected to know?

Regardless, I really really like the EOS and the Blockheadia petit Sirahs.

Karen MacNeil's Wine Bible contains the same information. Regardless of genetic relation or non-relation, what is the difference to an end-user between the two?

Can some fellow wine-lovers provide a detailed taste/nose comparision between Petite Syrah and Syrah (Shiraz). I find myself confused and I am trying to understand the nuances between all tyoes of wines these days.

Bass

I have not had much Petite Sirah, but, I can tell you this -- I am pretty sure I could tell the difference between the two.

Differance between Durif and Syrah/Shiraz
According to the Oxford Companion Durif is THOUGHT to be the same varietal recognised as Petite Sirah in North and South America. (So they're not sure either.)

Info from a course I attended some years ago.
Direct qoute from material.
Durif: Excellent resistance to Powdery mildew established this grape in France. Though to be unable to produce wines of high quality there have been many examples of good quality wines made from this grape variety. Characters of wines made predominantly from this grape are a stewed fruit nose (predominantly plums, cherrys), heavy course tannins and moderate to high acids. Known as Durif and Petite Sirah.

Shiraz/Syrah:One of the Noblest grape varietals (extremely ageworthy). The origins of this grape are quite contreversial with argument for its origins coming from the Rhone, Syracuse, Sicily and Khazakstan. Characterised by sweet berry's, spice and pepper with a solid tannic and acid background, the best examples of this varietal are amongst the best red wines in the world.

Wines made of Petit Sirah can be high quality wines. Just as with any varietal, the producer must strive to make wines of the highest quality in order to allow the grape to fully express itself. See for example Thackerey Orion, Turley Estate, Hayne, and Rattlesnake, Ridge Devil's Hill, and JacobFranklin.

A timely news article:

Petite Sirah Makes a Move

The article linked above mention:

I Quote " ...Some of California's oldest vines are petite sirah. Many stand alongside equally venerable zinfandel, carignane, alicante bouchet and grenache vines. That's the classic California "field blend": varieties grown together, picked together and fermented together to make hearty red preferred by Italian immigrants who planted them in the late 19th century..."


Did anybody can provide an example of this "field blend" wine.

Thanks.

TJ - here's my $0.02 on the difference.

Syrah/Shiraz - sweet, loads of fruit flavor, some tannins, some earthiness.

Petite Sirah/Syrah - tannic monsters with some, though not much, fruit, some tobacco, earthy. Tough to taste the nuances, the tannins just slap you in the face.

Like I said, I think I could use PS as a brush cleaner, or to degunk the carburetor on my old truck. And, like I also said, I think that my problem with PS may be only that my palate hasn't evolved enough to appreciate it.

Frankly, though, I don't think I'll be going out of my way for a glass of PS in the future.

JV38,

When I think "field blend" the first one that always comes to mind, for my own personal reasons, is the Alegria Vineyard in Sonoma County.

Here's a link to Rosenblum's'99 Alegria. The '97 Ridge Alegria that I had a few years ago was one of the wines that I directly attribute my "aha! moment" to, thus leading me into this wonderfully expensive hobby.

Jones,
I look forward to trying some of those wines during my US trip.
BTW the comment aboutDurif being unable to produce wines of excellent quality was just a direct quote from the source material. I've not tasted any except two from Aussie, and they were okay, so I feel I can't really comment on whether Durif/Petite Syrah makes good or bad wine. From comments such as yours, Vitis and others have made there seems to be a general consensus that given the right wine maker and conditions PS can produce some excellent wines.

I am also very fond of the older Stags' Leap (winery not wine cellars), the Carver Sutro and the Switchback Ridge. B&H also makes a nice one in a fruity style from the Barcini vineyard. If you like them BIG, try Carl Doumani's newest project - Panza.

\bob

I love Patty Sarah! I can't agree with you that no fruit and tannin is what PS is all about. Yes, they are big, kick-ass wines and good ones have wonderful dark fruits with chunks of chewy tar. Try some of the Turleys, Switchback Ridge, Chiarello, or Miner Family. They'll put a big purple smile on your face!

I'm very fond of Petite Sirah. Biale, Elyse, Philip Staley and Christopher Creek come to mind.
I don't think Shafer's Relentless would be nearly as relentless if not for the infusion of PS.

Petite Syrah is also the name that growers in the Rhone use to identify a supposed higher quality clone of true Syrah (Grosse Syrah and Petite Syrah). Some plants in the Rhone do in fact have smaller berries, but scientist have not identified any genetic difference.

The Sample of Petite Sirah at UC Davis has been in question. Some experts feel that much of the confusion is based on UC Davis having a misidentified sample for years.

Syrah is pretty easy to identify in the vineyard, especially at bud break. I've never seen Petite Sirah (Durif) to know if it's close to true Syrah while growing, but there's no mixing up Syrah with Zin, Cab, Merlot, Pinot, Grenache or Mourvedre once it's growing. For me Syrah is one of the easiest vines to identify. I'd be curious to hear from someone who knows if Durif looks the same as true Syrah in the vineyard?

Hey tlily... Welcome Paul

-unhappy shark graemlin-

thanks David