Chicago Wine Geek
Chicago Western Suburbs
Wine Labeler
Posts:3645
 | | 12/11/2003 4:37 PM |
| Can someone remind me? What exactly does "fining" mean and entail. So when a wine is "unfiltered and unfined" what does that mean, other than minimal intervention?
Thanks. | | | |
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 12/11/2003 5:32 PM |
| | Fining is often done with egg whites. The solid is run through the wine and coagulates with particles in the wine. | | | |
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Eric White
San Ramon, CA
Advanced Sommelier
Posts:9127
| | 12/11/2003 5:52 PM |
| | As TCK mentions, fining is a method used for clarifying wines by removing sediment before bottling. Typical fining agents include egg whites, clay, and gelatin. The sediment attaches to these agents, and the wine is drawn off leaving the gunk behind. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15711
| | 12/11/2003 6:09 PM |
| From "Wine Lover's Companion":
FINING. A winemaking process that removes microscopic element such as protein particles that would cloud the wine and phenolic compounds like tannins that could cause bitterness and astringency. The most frequently used fining agents are activated carbon, activated charcoal, bentonite, casein, egg whites, gelatin, isinglass, nylon, and polyvinyl poly-pyrrolidone (PVPP). When added to wine, fining agents capture suspended particles by absorbtion or coagulation, causing them to settle to the bottom of the container. Once the particles sink, the wine can be racked, filtered or centrifuged to separate it from this sediment. In addition to clarifying wines, various fining agents can also be used to remove color from white wines, deodorize wines with an off odor, and reduce acids.
(I wouldn't use all those commas but I am copying from the book. I hate commas. I hate comas too.) | | | |
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Chicago Wine Geek
Chicago Western Suburbs
Wine Labeler
Posts:3645
| | 12/11/2003 8:20 PM |
| | The reason I was asking is that I am giving my boss some wine for Christmas. 3 of which are 1999 Martinelli Chardonnays. I remember that they were, "unfiltered and unfined". When I poured the first one, I was suprised to see a bunch of sediment and a little cloudiness. I just found out that Helen doesn't like to filter or fine these wines in order not to remove any components of the final product. Fining also oxygenates the wine. The Martinelli's are pressed direct to barrel and receive minimal if any contact with oxygen. Got this from calling Martinelli. | | | |
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John Chasse
Grape Stomper
Posts:171
| | 12/14/2003 3:25 PM |
| Thanks, DavidN, for the helpful, concise, and, if I may say, informative post, ,,
 , | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15711
| | 12/14/2003 5:34 PM |
| It is from a great, relatively small paperback bood called
Wine Lovers Companion by Ron Herbst and Sharon Tyler Herbst.
I would highly recommend the inexpensive dictionary-type wine book. I'll tell you one of the most interesting appendexes of it is a list of over 150 different winetasting descriptors.
I think they wrote a companion book that is on my Christmas list: Food Lovers Companion. | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13660
| | 12/14/2003 6:34 PM |
| We all ought to start work on a collective Tome called --
'Vinocellar -- The Offical Complete Guide To Everything Wine'
Or something. We could do it! | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15711
| | 12/14/2003 9:47 PM |
| | From Abboccato to Zucchero. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 01/13/2004 1:32 AM |
| There are a couple of problems related to fining and non fining wines.
Fining wines can result in over-fining and racking which can result if Sulphur hydroxide being evident in the wine- the rotten egg smell.This can also stir up Volitile Acids as well.
NOn fining and filtering can encourage microbe growth within the wine along with secondary fermentation risks. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:27
| | 01/14/2004 8:39 PM |
| CWG, all good answers, but I don't think anybody really touched on why a winemaker may decide to bottle unfiltered and unfined. It all boils down to the theory of less is more. Winemakers that don't filter or fine do so because they believe that less intervention makes for better tasting wines. Sure, wines that are filtered and fined look prettier and brighter, with no sediments or tartaric crystals (which happens when you refrigerate unfined whites for a long time), but the winemakers feel that what you gain in beauty, you lose much more flavor and complexity in taste.
Unfiltered and unfined is basically a qualitative statement. One that I believe in.  | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Stomper
Posts:152
| | 01/15/2004 11:14 AM |
| Wishbone,
There is the other side to filtering too - why a winemaker may decide to filter and fine.
It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with beauty or trying not to scare away the consumer, there are different views on whether or not the flavour removal associated with fining is a good or a bad thing.
Emile Peynaud famously stated his view on ths subject like this (I'm quoting from memory)
"Those that say that filtering and fining damage the taste of wine, woud have it that the taste of wine is above all attributable to foreign particles in suspension."
According to this view filtering and fining makes the wine more pure and therefore better. | | | |
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Marcel
Grape Puncher
Posts:875
| | 01/15/2004 5:07 PM |
| Quote:
"Those that say that filtering and fining damage the taste of wine, woud have it that the taste of wine is above all attributable to foreign particles in suspension."
According to this view filtering and fining makes the wine more pure and therefore better.
One question though: filtering and fining takes away only foreign particles? Wouldn't it take away some natural flavor elements of the wine?  | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:27
| | 01/15/2004 7:13 PM |
| Mars beat me to the punch.
To say that filtering and fininig only removes the suspended particles in wine and to have the belief that those items are responsible for the flavors is a bit extreme.
If filtering and fining ONLY removed the suspended particles, then I don't believe any winemaker would be against it. The fact is that many believe that F&F also strips away some flavor and complexity, in ADDITION to suspended particles. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 01/16/2004 12:47 AM |
| Filtering adds flavours as well as taking it away. Cheesy notes in chardonnay are often from lees aging but also are often associated with egg fining.
Tartaric crytstals are not formed because of chilling wine over a long time but are often a sign of unfiltered wine made using a Cold-stop fermentation technique to stabilise the level of alcohol in the wine. The crystals are formed over age, but are evident in the wine from the moment Fermentation is topped using a chilling process which kills the yeasts. That is a basic summary..theres lots more to it though. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:27
| | 01/16/2004 1:06 AM |
| | We may be differing on semantics. When I was referring to tartaric crystals, I meant that when you refrigerate an unfiltered wine for a long period, tartaric crystals will form. Don't believe me? Put an unfiltered Chard in your fridge for a month or two. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Stomper
Posts:152
| | 01/16/2004 8:36 AM |
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Yes, I agree with you, Peynaud is known to be a little extreme, but I merely wanted to highlihgt that side of the argument.
Reading his texts I found he felt that a properly conducted filtration and fining doesn't remove anything but impurities. | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13660
| | 01/16/2004 2:25 PM |
| | Isn't fining generally done to make the wine look 'clear' and also to help make it more stable (for foreign markets delivery, etc)?? | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:27
| | 01/16/2004 2:55 PM |
| Quote:
Isn't fining generally done to make the wine look 'clear' and also to help make it more stable (for foreign markets delivery, etc)??
Those are the general reasons for doing it. That is why many winemakers believe not fining and filtering to be a quality statement. They believe that what you leave, as far as flavor and complexity, outweigh what you take out. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1010
| | 01/16/2004 7:04 PM |
| | A small fact to add to the conversation. Bentonite is a clay product. It's used for fining and also is used when mixed into a slurry as lubricant for drilling wells and for directional boring for installation of pipelines when open cutting isn't practical. I've managed a few projects that used this stuff for drilling under freeways and under bodies of water. I can tell you that although I didn't taste it, I am quite sure I don't want it introduced to any wine I'm drinking. | | | |
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