 | | VinoCellar.com Wine Forums | |
| |
| | | Author | Messages | |
ChangeMe
Grape Picker
Posts:10
 | | 12/27/2002 4:22 PM |
| | Is it the same thing if I leave an opened bottle of wine to let some air in so the wine opens up or pour the wine into a decanter? Does the wine open up faster in the decanter than in the opened bottle? And, does the wine open up @ all if it remains in the opened bottle? Thank You. | | | |
| Eric White
San Ramon, CA
Advanced Sommelier
Posts:9124
| | 12/27/2002 4:56 PM |
| Hello ELW,
No, it is not the same to open a bottle and "let it breath" as it is to decant. Opening a bottle to let it breath without decanting is virtually useless, as there is not enough air in contact with the wine to make an appreciable difference. However, decanting increases the amount of wine in contact with air, and this will open the wine much faster.
| | | |
| stemor
Collierville, TN
Wine Thief
Posts:2813
| | 12/27/2002 8:06 PM |
| I haven't seen anything really scientific on this, so here's my opinion ... lacking scientific studies, you can't refute it!
"Decanting to open the wine" involves oxydation, and therefore requires the interchange between the liquid and air. The point where this interaction takes place is, of course, on the surface of the wine.
Therefore, this interaction is driven by the surface area of the wine, the time in the decanter, and amount of air interchanging in the decanter (plus temperature and a few other variables).
So, "aeration" = f (As, t, Va, ...),
where As = Area of the liquid surface, t = time, and Va = Volume of air that passes through the decanter.
If the decanter is a proper one and the top is open, then you'll have maximum surface area and a good volume of air flowing in & out of the decanter. Since the amount of oxydation would be directly proportional to the surface area, then an hour in a proper decanter (say 10" across at the wide spot, therefore 5^2*pi, or about 31 in^2) would do more for you than leaving a full bottle open (surface area at the bottle neck would be something like 0.5 in^2 ... in other words, the ratio is something like 70:1. One hour in a REAL decanter is like 70 hours sitting open in a full bottle.
See how much fun applied math and science can be?  | |
Cheers, y'all | |
| Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4972
| | 12/27/2002 10:11 PM |
| Stemor, I refute your spelling, but otherwise agree completely. :-)
It's all about the surface area. Letting a wine breath in the bottle works fairly well if you've already poured a glass, but if you haven't, then Eric is right in my opinion... fairly useless for the short term since it's up in the neck most likely and not getting much air as demonstrated by Stemor's applied mathematical corollary to an already proven theory. | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Destemmer
Posts:89
| | 01/07/2003 1:38 AM |
| Old topic, I know, but I was just researching this subject.
I have read that decanting and aerating certain wines is a no-no and can ruin the flavor of things like Pinots Noirs and even older Zins. On the other hand, I have read that aerating newer, heavy, tannic wines, can open them up.
In fact, in Karen MacNeil's (sp?) Wine Bible, she says wines should only be decanted for any period of time if they are old and have sediment. However, short air exposure (minutes) in a decanter for other wines may help them open up, but is not recommended for wines that may take on too much of an acidic taste that could overpower or oxidize away complex flavoring.
I am confused. People always talk about letting a wine breath. How should this be done without overoxidizing and harming the wine's more fragile components? I agree that simply popping the cork out and letting the bottle sit for an hour probably accomplishes little.
I tried a bottle of Rex Hill 1999 Reserve Pinot Noir last week that I poured a glass out of first and let sit for a half hour. While OK, I was not impressed with the wine and am not sure if I ruined it by trying to let it breath. Maybe I should have left it alone? Maybe it was just a mediocre wine ($52).
Any opinions or help?
Bass | | | |
| Bob Bressler
Napa Valley
Wine Lover
Posts:4809
| | 01/07/2003 2:03 AM |
| young red wines can taste acidic and flat until the oxygen has gotten in there. if you pour a glass from a freshly opened bottle and taste it every 10 minutes for a couple of hours you will see a big difference. Even Parker has made comments like how the Noon wines taste better the second day.
In France they even have the expression of a "meter pour" to describe pouring the wine into a decanter from a great distance (a meter) so it splashes around and gets lots of air exposure.
On the other hand, doing this to a mature wine will likely lose most of the flavor.
When we are taking a young big red to a restaurant, I often "double decant" it, i.e. pour it into a decanter, wash out the bottle to get rid of sediment, and pour the wine back into the bottle and put the cork back in partway. Not only is the wine ready to go when we first sit down, but you don't have to cringe when the wait person tips the bottle to get the last drop in your glass!
\bob | | | |
| Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13660
| | 01/08/2003 3:48 AM |
| | Younger Pinots demand proper decanting. | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
| David Walker
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2284
| | 01/08/2003 11:57 AM |
| Bressler -
When you say "wash" you mean rinse w/ water only, right? | | | |
| Joseph Bembry
Wine Lover
Posts:4857
| | 01/08/2003 1:41 PM |
| Actually, when I do this, I don't rinse the bottle out. I just shake it to get some of the bigger pieces of sediment out. I'm worried about adding water to the wine upon returning. Crazy, I know.
jb | | | |
| Bob Bressler
Napa Valley
Wine Lover
Posts:4809
| | 01/08/2003 7:33 PM |
| paraphrasing the car commercial on TV:
soap = hate | | | |
| ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1210
| | 01/08/2003 8:59 PM |
| most big young reds don't have much sediment in my experience. The decanting is just for the aeration. of course my definition for young may be much different than yours considering my oldest wine is a 94.
Scott | | | |
| Wineaux
New Orleans, LA
Barrel Filler
Posts:1413
| | 01/09/2003 5:15 AM |
| | I agree w/ tjaehnigen regarding young pinots - generally speaking, they need decanting. As for other reds, I'm to the point where I pour all reds into a decanter. I like to sniff and/or taste them upon pouring, after 15-30 minutes, after 1 hour, and thereafter if I think the wine will benefit from additional time. | | | |
| GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 01/11/2003 2:38 AM |
| Nice stemor.
Other than 30 year old wines, all of the other wines I drink improve dramatically if I decant or leave in a glass for an hour (then I drive my wife nuts by swirling for a long time after).
For most of the wines that I drink, aeration is very important. The only wine that I've had where the wine went downhill was one of the TAA wines that went downhill after 1 hour of airtime. Even this wine improved from opening to about 30 minutes of airtime.
I'm finding that all, and I mean all, of the 2001 German rieslings that I have been drinking are better the second day. Some are even better the 3rd day. I should note that I immediately rebottle them in put in the frig. But it seems like decanting them for 1-2 hours equals one day in the frig rebottled.
I think most people drink wines too young so aeration is key for maximum enjoyment.
| | | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 |
| |
| |
|
| | Proposed Change to American Viticultural Area Naming Standards Monday, March 10, 2008
| Wine Primers - Links to Your Wine Education Tuesday, February 12, 2008
| Wine Country Report: Day trip to the Willamette Valley Monday, February 11, 2008
| VinoCellar's Favorite Wine Links Saturday, February 09, 2008
| Wine Retailer Reports - Thanks Winetex! Monday, February 04, 2008
|
|
| |
| |
| |  | Membership: |  | Latest:figodeng |  | New Today:1 |  | New Yesterday:1 |  | Overall:2004 |
 | People Online: |  | Visitors:80 |  | Members:3 |  | Total:83 |
|
|
| |
| |
|