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Friday, September 05, 2008

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Subject: Sparkling Wine / Champagne Question

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DJ Hombre

Napa Valley, California

Barrel Filler
Posts:1366

10/02/2003 7:44 AM
I went up to Roederer Estate on Wednesday and did a tasting of their sparkling wines. They did a comparison between their standard 750 bottles with their magnums of the same exact sparklers. However, the Magnums were incredibly different than the 750s. They were richer wines, was truly fascinating (ok, yes i'm a newb). Why is that? What does aging a sparkling wine in a magnum do that a 750 does not? After tasting the difference between the two... I think I'm hooked on just buying Magnums when it comes to sparkling wine / champagne. Although, I didnt today. Picked up a 750 of their `97 L'Ermitage. They wouldn't give me a discount on the Magnum.

ChangeMe

Master of Wine
Posts:11169

10/02/2003 12:44 PM
How old were the bottles? If they were recently bottled, I'd suspect different wine was put into the different bottles. If it had been aging for awhile, I'd expect the larger bottles to taste younger.

skwid

Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5452

10/02/2003 3:06 PM
Board-o, You mean they refill the bottles? I thought Champagne was fermented in the bottle and then uncapped and the dosage was added and then corked. Thus every bottle is basically its own fermentation vessel.

DJ Hombre

Napa Valley, California

Barrel Filler
Posts:1366

10/02/2003 5:03 PM
I seriously doubt that Roederer Estate would try to pull a trick on its customers by swapping out wine in its magnums. That's just bad form. Most of the wines were NVs, but the one vintage they had available for tasting was the `97 in both the 750 and the Magnum. As I was leaving the tasting room though, I saw they had for sale in their cellar selection an `89, `93 and `96 L'Ermitages... I just might have to make another trip back up there after I get my paycheck.

Joseph Bembry User is Offline

Wine Lover
Posts:4875

10/02/2003 7:33 PM
There are actually 3 different methods for making Champagne/Sparkling Wine. The Traditional Method is when the blended wine is allowed a second fermentation in the bottle. The addition of Liqueur de Tirage (mixture of wine, sugar and yeast) sets off that second fermentation, thus you get the sparkle. Remuage is performed allowing the sediment from the yeast cells to collect in the neck of the bottles and then they are removed (degorgement). Finally, the bottles are topped (dosage) with Liqueur d'Expedition, a mixture of wine and cane sugar. Each Champagne house has its own style and the amount of dosage is varies. I think the Pommery style is on the sweeter side and I like it. Another method is the Tank Method. The second fermentation takes place in a sealed tank instead of in the bottle. The sediment is removed by filtration under pressure before the wine is bottled. This is a lower cost method of acheiving sparkle. The third method is Carbonation. As you can guess, its like making soda, they put bubbles in it. This is basically crappy sparkling wine. jb

TCK

Barrel Filler
Posts:1279

10/02/2003 8:34 PM
If the wines were aged then it isn't surprising. Magnums are considered the best format for balanced ageing. Even non-vintage champagne is aged for a good deal of time before release, but I wouldn's expect such a dramtic diffrence. If the bottle were opened for some time it is possible that the Mag disipated more CO2 then the 750 which would make it less lively and possibly appear lively, but that is an assumption. Basically, if it was the same wine from the same vintage, and the vintage was recent, then there should not be a big diffrence unless it was NV and blended from diffrent tanks. TCK

KillerB

Barrel Racker
Posts:1533

11/18/2003 12:58 PM
I noticed that my big bottle of piper-Heidseick was considerably better than the normal stuff. It was a Mathusela and had been hanging around for a while. Much richer as you say. I don't normally give PH much of my time but given time and a spare liver I could have finished that off on my own.

ChangeMe

Grape Picker
Posts:5

11/18/2003 3:40 PM
Bottles larger than magnums are filled from Champagne aged in smaller bottles. They simply have no racks for turning the larger bottles. Magnums have traditionaly been believed to age the wine better, why i am not really sure. Aging you own Champagne after buying for a couple of years is believd to better the wine. the one thing for sure that it does is lose some carbonation over 10-20 years.-Dick

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