Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
 | | 12/16/2002 9:47 PM |
| We just had a bottle of Chardonnay and it had bubbles. Not a lot of them mind you, but I was surprized. I haven't seen that before on a "still" wine.
So.....what would cause this?
And no, I wouldn't buy the wine again. | | | |
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5452
| | 12/16/2002 10:04 PM |
| | Refermentation in the bottle would probably cause this. If a wine isn't filtered there could be yeast still in the wine. If the wine isn't totally dry (i.e. no sugar) the yeast could kick in again and start eating the sugar and produce alcohol and CO2. This is a reason why wines which are not dry need to be filtered, if you don't you are asking to have this happen in alot of the wine. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 12/16/2002 11:33 PM |
| | Another possibility is that the wine was bottled with a little CO2 to keep the wine fresh. Many German producers do this, as do many New World Chard producers. | | | |
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Seaquam
Barrel Filler
Posts:1141
| | 12/17/2002 12:30 AM |
| I agree with skwid that it's probably secondary fermentation.
I had a case of '90 Hogue Reserve Chardonay that had this happen to most of the bottles. I was surprised at first, but a winemaker acquaintance told me to hold on for 6 months to a year, and it would end without harming the wine. The alternative was to aerate/decant for an hour or so before drinking. I went with the latter, and drank them up fairly quickly. I don't know whether refermentation can have an adverse effect on the wine, but I didn't want to chance it. | | | |
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5452
| | 12/17/2002 12:45 AM |
| | refermentation will most likely change the taste of the wine. You will be removing some of the sweetness and adding alcohol and other esters from the sugar conversion. | | | |
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 12/17/2002 12:57 AM |
| A second fermentaion usually will also usually leave a bit of a funk to the wine when it is first opened - like sour milk; but it will blow off if givin enough time.
As Jeremy said the "epervesence" is common in some German wines most notably in the Mosel, and should not be considered a flaw. It is also fairly regular in Muscadet sur Lie's of the Loire Valley.
TCK
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 12/17/2002 1:08 AM |
| Also,
The fermentation that takes place in the bottle is usually a Malolactic fermentation. This is where Malo acid is converted to Lactic Acid (found in Milk) hence the spoiled odor that often will accompany this flaw. The gas that is a by-product of this reaction usually does not linger for more then a few minutes. In the mouth the wine may not be as crisp as it was meant to be.
TCK | | | |
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Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
| | 12/17/2002 1:30 PM |
| Thanks.
Great info, helpful and well thought. No zingers either. I think some of the "other" boards have gotten a bit too aggressive and mean spirited and thus posters aren't asking "dumb" questions any more for fear of being humiliated.
By the way, the wine was from Chile. I only had the one bottle and I'm not sure if I still have the label. If sop, I'll post the name later.
Cheers!
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5452
| | 12/17/2002 6:50 PM |
| | Btw, if this wine was a Blanc de Blancs then it would be perfectly normal to be a Chardonnay with bubbles (this is a Champagne with 100% Chardonnay grapes) | | | |
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love_cab_chard
Master of Wine
Posts:12248
| | 12/17/2002 7:08 PM |
| Good point, skwid. I forgot to bring that up.
I actually always buy (used to buy) a very good 1 from Matanzas Creek (before they went down the hill). They used to make a good Blanc de Blanc. It was ONLY available @ the Winery. | | | |
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Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
| | 12/17/2002 9:11 PM |
| I'm curious about Matanzas Creek and the recent bad press in the various Forums. Is it a general decline or specific to a varietal?
I just sampled some of their Chardonnay and I thought that it was quite all right. I haven't had their wines regularly in quite some time and while I would agree they may not be as good as in the early '90s, this certainly isn't swill. Matanzas did have a marvelous Merlot. I'm assuming it is not on par either?
I've seen the same type comments about St. Francis.
Oh, how sad when the mighty have fallen.
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love_cab_chard
Master of Wine
Posts:12248
| | 12/17/2002 9:18 PM |
| Yes, to both.
Matanzas: They changed WineMakers to some French-guy. I visited them this Summer. And, really found nothing to buy there anymore. Even their signature-Merlot is NOT worth the $$$ anymore (to me). I did Not buy anything there.
St. Francis: I do Not know their story. But, I visited them also this Summer. They have a nice, new Winery. Great. But, the Prices sky-rocketed & the quality dropped. So, I dropped them also. | | | |
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Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
| | 12/17/2002 10:25 PM |
| That is really sad.
I don't think St. Francis needed a new building, that's for sure. I really loved their Merlots from the past.
Matanzas Creek is a shame for sure. Their Journey Merlot was never worth the delta versus their standard Merlot IMO. I guess next time I go there I'll just buy some lavender.
I do have a bottle of the M.C. Chardonnay in the cellar and I'll have to pull it and revisit an old friend.
Thanks for the comments, sad as they are...
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love_cab_chard
Master of Wine
Posts:12248
| | 12/17/2002 10:29 PM |
| | May be, Not even the Lavender. I always buy their Lavender Massage Body Oil. But, now what they are doing. The Lavender is outside of the bottle. It used to be Inside the bottle. So, it gave the Oil that Lavender-aroma. NOT anymore. | | | |
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Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
| | 12/17/2002 10:41 PM |
| Well, I guess next time I'll pass and go to Smother's Bros. Winery instead. (KIdding! Absolutely kidding! That was the worst wine I'd ever had --- 8-9 years back though).
Back on topic though, the bubbles did concern me. I like them in sparkling or Champagne because they are supposed to be there. A still Chard though, nope. But hey, it was only a $15 bottle anyway.
CSJ isn't far away though..... | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 12/18/2002 1:16 AM |
| TCK,
Malo-lactic fermentation won't have occured in the bottle. The malo-lactic fermentation occurs during fermentation in the barrel because specific yeasts need to be added, for this fermentation process to begin. The conversion of malo acids into lactic acids happens in 99% of all reds and and most chardonnays.
Secondary fermentation often occurs because of three factors
1) The bottle has shaken a little bit over a long period of time (ie during shipping, or in the back of a truck etc..)thus causing the yeasts to be re-activated.
2) The ambiant temperature of the bottle has changed over a period of time allowing dormant yeasts to be "awoken".
3) When the wine was made it was cold stop fermented, suspending the activity of the yeasts, thus not all of the yeasts died and filtered. The remaining yeats then reactivated due to the above conditions.
This will be a standard fermentation and shouldn't affect the alcohol by any great amount. Most yeasts naturally die at certain alcohol points unless they are of a particularly resiliant strain.
Vitis probably has some even more accurate info and may be able to relate exactly the reason for this phenomenon. | | | |
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