Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13627
 | | 12/05/2005 2:26 PM |
| | I had a pretty good experience with the sommm at Maestro. He listened to what I liked, kept my budget in mind and made about a half dozen suggestions from which I picked one. It was pretty good and not overly marked up. | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1475
| | 12/05/2005 7:05 PM |
| Quote:
I had a pretty good experience with the sommm at Maestro. He listened to what I liked, kept my budget in mind and made about a half dozen suggestions from which I picked one. It was pretty good and not overly marked up.
The somm at Maestro was pretty snooty with me.
I should get some kind of medal for having, based on everything else everyone has said, the only subpar experience ever had by anyone at Maestro. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/05/2005 8:05 PM |
| Imagine that! A snooty sommelier(e)/pest! raybanz, sorry to hear about your experience. I hope you outsnootied the s/p. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1475
| | 12/05/2005 11:37 PM |
| Maestro has this chef's menu where he chooses a bunch of special and wonderful courses for you. Unfortunately, you don't know what you get beforehand. The waiter sold us on this, and then when the somm. came over, he told us that he couldn't help pair anything with the menu, because he also didn't know what we were getting. I told him, somewhat puzzled, that it didn't seem like a very good system, and asked if he could get an idea from the chef what were getting. He insisted this was impossible, so I told him I didn't want to get a great bottle of red and only get seafood, so I just got a bottle of sauvignon blanc and added glasses of red wine when I did get meat courses.
The kicker of the whole experience is that the courses we got were just ones from the printed menu. This was never explained at all in the sales pitch for the special chef's selection menu. Pretty lame, I think. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/06/2005 12:08 AM |
| | He lied to you. He could have found out what you were being served. We've had tasting menues in numerous restaurants and we also know what we're getting if we ask. I wouldn't go back there. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1475
| | 12/06/2005 3:04 AM |
| Yeah, I know. The whole experience was pretty dreadful. Whaddiya expect for $450, though???
Like I said though, I think most people love it. I know LCC and TJ both had great experiences.
Oh well  | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/06/2005 3:17 AM |
| | A lot of people rave about Charlie Trotter's. We'll never go back. The tasting menu was 8 courses. Five ordinary courses followed by three excellent dessert courses. My wife is 5' 5 1/2" tall and weighs 116 pounds. She was hungry when we left. Five and a half years ago it was $375 with one modestly priced bottle of Oregon Pinot Noir. | | | |
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love_cab_chard
Master of Wine
Posts:12248
| | 12/06/2005 3:45 AM |
| | Sorry to hear that raybanz, we had a great time. Really top 10 dining experience for us & the somm was very nice. It is a very expensive restaurant, so I am sad to hear they had a bad/off night for you. | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13627
| | 12/06/2005 1:58 PM |
| Quote:
Maestro has this chef's menu where he chooses a bunch of special and wonderful courses for you. Unfortunately, you don't know what you get beforehand. The waiter sold us on this, and then when the somm. came over, he told us that he couldn't help pair anything with the menu, because he also didn't know what we were getting. I told him, somewhat puzzled, that it didn't seem like a very good system, and asked if he could get an idea from the chef what were getting. He insisted this was impossible, so I told him I didn't want to get a great bottle of red and only get seafood, so I just got a bottle of sauvignon blanc and added glasses of red wine when I did get meat courses.
The kicker of the whole experience is that the courses we got were just ones from the printed menu. This was never explained at all in the sales pitch for the special chef's selection menu. Pretty lame, I think.
That is really quite surprising, raybanz. I am pretty sure that when they explained the various different ways of ordering to us, they pointed out that the tasting menu courses were made up of various offerings of the 'regular' menu. Odd that they wouldn't point that out and even odder that they wouldn't be able to tell you what was coming your way. | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/06/2005 2:08 PM |
| | The last tasting menu we did was at a NYC offline with the KillerBs at Montrachet. We asked and were told in advance what the courses would be and I believe one course was altered for one of us. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15701
| | 12/08/2005 12:07 AM |
| Quote:
A little skepticism of the motives of someone trying to sell you something is warranted in my book.
Everybody is "selling" you on something all the time. Your wife sells you on the idea of taking her out to dinner. Your children sell you on the idea that the $100 they need is for a good investment.
When you go to a restaurant have you ever asked your waiter about a particular dish... or for a recommendation?
The way I see it is if a somm recommends a wine and one doesn't like it it should be easy to send back.
When you talk to a somm there is nothing that says you must take his recommendation.
Give 'em a break. They are human beings. They are potentially a new friend. Be nice  | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/08/2005 12:19 AM |
| I understand what you're saying, but I can't abide the snootiness of most somms, and I know my tastes a lot better than they do. The pomposity and arrogance of some of them is a big turnoff. In spite the way I sound here, I'm not rude to them. If one comes over to our table and asks if he or she may be of assitance, my normal answer will be, "Thanks, we're fine," said with a smile.
I remember one in particular, the sommelier at The Inn at Blackberry Farm, the nicest inn in which we've ever stayed. We would buy a white and bring a red with us, offering him a taste of our red wine each night. We even had a polite and friendly conversation each night and we ordered our white wine directly from him. After uncorking the white (We brought the red in a decanter.) with great ceremony, he made a point of putting his left arm completely behind his back with a flourish and poured our wine with a cute little twist at the end. I felt like mooning him, but I just smiled. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15701
| | 12/08/2005 12:29 AM |
| If I come upon a "snooty" somm (or for that fact a waiter/captain) I do something to get a laugh.
Now... sitting here typing I can't think of anything I have done to accomplish the "laugh". Let me think about this. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/08/2005 1:10 AM |
| | In spite of my feelings, I have never had a cross word with a somm. The only thing that came close was at WD-50 when the waiter opened our bottle of wine just about out of our site, spalsh decanted as I had instructed, and then stuck his nose in the decanter before bringing it to the table. I told him it was very wrong and that I had considered rejecting the bottle without smelling or tasting it. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15701
| | 12/08/2005 1:25 AM |
| | Was his name Cyrano de Bergerac? | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/08/2005 1:28 AM |
| Wrong piece of fiction. He was a character in "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs." Sneezy.
We have to stop meeting like this, david. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1475
| | 12/08/2005 1:41 AM |
| | Board_O, I see where you are coming from, but I think I have often gotten useful advice from a somm deciding between two or three bottles on a list. When he/she comes over, I tell them what I am eating and what I am looking at on the list, and hear what they have to say. Sometimes I have gotten some very good advice, sometimes... not so much. I will agree they can be very annoying, but I can't imagine you believe they serve NO purpose. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 12/08/2005 2:39 AM |
| | Not for me. Well, a better way to say it is that the negatives outweigh the positives. | | | |
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GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 12/11/2005 6:33 PM |
| I should add that some of my bad experiences with sommeliers is not their fault - it is the fault of the "system". The first problem is that restaurants have to charge a fairly large premium for the wine. Add the cost of financing and storing it for awhile, the situation gets worse. If you bought a very good bottle of wine for $50 (not easy these days), the restaurant would pay $25+/- for the same wine. They would offer the wine (during the year of release) for $100+/-. Five years later, they will offer the wine for $200+/-. The problem is that you have cases of this wine (that you paid $50) in your own cellar and don't want to pay $200 for this wine when you know they paid $25 for it 5 years ago. Add the fact that even good restaurants don't used glassware that is as good as the ones you use at home, then the whole economics of the wine is off. So the sommelier is off to a bad start to begin with.
The last good experience I had was at Rubicon. They recommended and August West Rosella that was fabulous for a reasonable price (2X what you would pay at a store). But this is the very best experience you can expect at a restaurant.
I guess I'm already not happy about what I have to pay for a good bottle of wine in a restaurant, so even a slightly bad experience with a sommelier will ruin my dining experience.
I'm trying not to be black and white about this, but rather to explain the variables that affect me. | | | |
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Joseph Bembry
Wine Lover
Posts:4834
| | 12/12/2005 2:01 AM |
| I have to say that all the negativity towards sommeliers in this thread is surprising to me. I have never had a terrible experience with a sommelier and actually enjoy talking with someone who is knowledgable and passionate about wine in a restaurant setting. Maybe the difference from my perspective is that I rarely am looking at expensive wines on a restaurant list. I just can't afford to spend $300 on a bottle of wine. I'm usually not looking either for something earthshattering. My normal modus operandi is to figure out what I want to eat in general terms, check out the list to see if anything grabs me, and then just ask the sommelier what he thinks goes well with X in my price range. I could care less if he is trying to move a certain wine, as long as I find it enjoyable and a good match with my meal. But that's just me...
jb | | | |
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