Christ Karalekas
Grape Stomper
Posts:101
 | | 01/22/2003 9:32 PM |
| | HI... What does it mean when they say "this wine is starting to close up for a while like all great vintages" | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 01/23/2003 12:05 AM |
| I'm not sure what you are refering to but will make a guess.
All wines go through a period where the acids and tannins dominate the fruit. With superior wines where the wine is more balanced this phase (often refered to as the dumb phase) is often more pro-longed and takes longer to appear. This is particularly prominant with wines that are dominated by acids and tannins-so for example Sangiovese dominant wines from a great vintage may suffer this dumb phase for several years. 97 BdM's are a good example.
If the acids are particularly dominating the nose will be good but the palate will be very subdued(little fruit evidence.)
The argument of a dumb phase is still quite contreversial but I have expirienced it too often to ignore the idea. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1210
| | 01/23/2003 12:32 AM |
| Jeremy's description is pretty close to my thoughts. Essentially it is a period of time when the wine can cease to have an aroma and tastes fruitless on the palate. The wine can seem characterless, tannic, acidic, and otherwise unpleasant. The good news is that this is (usually) a temporary stage. The fruit will come back but in a different form like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon.
There are no universals. I don't think this happens in only "great" vintages or only in certain regions. I have experienced this the most in Rhone wines (CnDP), but have heard it happens in many wines, including german riesling, burgundy, bordeaux, etc. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 01/23/2003 12:35 AM |
| | Second that. It certainly isn't limited to any specific style or variety of wine but is often more prominant in wines with high acids/tannins. | | | |
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JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts:8568
| | 01/23/2003 12:56 AM |
| | While some wines undoubtedly go into a dumb phase, it is a gross exaggeration to say that all wines do. Many don't. Oftentimes people claim a wine is in its dumb phase because the wine they are drinking doesn't taste good and the taster - looking at the label - thinks the wine should taste better. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1210
| | 01/23/2003 1:01 AM |
| I think there is validity to that too. Only time can tell if a wine has gone dumb or sucks.
Another related controversy is the theory of "bottle shock". I don't know if this exists, but I don't risk newly shipped wine by drinking it right away either.
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Seek
Upstate NY
Wine Thief
Posts:2772
| | 01/23/2003 1:57 AM |
| | Particularly with the Aussie wines I feel I have most certainly experienced the so called "bottle shock". This is one thing I truly believe in. Regarding "Dumb Phase" I have heard most red wines will go thru this to some degree or another. Whether discernable or not is another question. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 01/23/2003 6:01 AM |
| Bottle shock definately exists and only occurs between weeks four and weeks ten after bottling.
Travel shock on the other hand occurs due to continual vibration from travel (from trucks, shipping etc..) and cause miniscule stabilisation which in turn affects the fruit of the wine because other flavourols have been stimulated. | | | |
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GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 01/23/2003 6:46 AM |
| | I like the theory that all wines go though some changes. Some go through more than others and some changes are more noticeable than others. To say that there is no such thing as a dumb phase does not make sense to me. To say that all wines goes through it does not make sense to me either because a lot of wines do not change enough to be noticeable. It is interesting to have a case or more of wine and drink it over a long period to notice the evolution. Just when I think a wine is going in one direction, I am often surprised to see a quick turn - I guess bottle variation can make it difficult to predict where a wine is going using this method. This just makes wine drinking more fun. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1210
| | 01/23/2003 7:29 PM |
| I would be curious to see some elaboration on the following statements..
In reply to:
Bottle shock definately exists and only occurs between weeks four and weeks ten after bottling.
Why only between 4 and 10? Why not between 1 and 10, of 1 and ??
In reply to:
Travel shock on the other hand occurs due to continual vibration from travel (from trucks, shipping etc..) and cause miniscule stabilisation which in turn affects the fruit of the wine because other flavourols have been stimulated.
How long, in your opinion does this last? | | | |
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Joseph Bembry
Wine Lover
Posts:4857
| | 01/23/2003 7:35 PM |
| When talking about travel shock, I was always told to wait 2 weeks before opening something that gets shipped to me. Some people claim that 2 weeks is not enough, I don't buy it. In all honesty, I would think the wine would settle out in just a few days if left undisturbed, but I can wait the two weeks, so I do.
jb | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1210
| | 01/23/2003 9:43 PM |
| | What if you buy it from a store shelf? Do you let it sit for two weeks because theoretically it may have just arrived by truck yesterday? | | | |
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Joseph Bembry
Wine Lover
Posts:4857
| | 01/23/2003 10:21 PM |
| Honestly, I rarely purchase a bottle and pull the cork that night. Most of my purchases are placed in my cellar and consumed whenever the moment strikes me. So to answer your question, yes I usually let it sit, but no, I'm not worried about the truck thing. I'm more concerned with bottles that have just been shipped to my door. I KNOW they have been bounced around.
jb | | | |
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Budman
Master of Wine
Posts:11833
| | 01/23/2003 10:57 PM |
| JB,
I usually wait at least 2 weeks for wine that I have had shipped to me, since I don't know how roughly it was handled. I agree with you that a few days may suffice, but why take chances.
Wine that I buy from a shop, on the other hand, is under my personal control, and I know if I've driven it over a bumpy road... or not. Usually, I will drink wine that I buy from a shop without regrad to 'travel shock' (unless I drive all the way to Wine Library to get it  ). | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 01/28/2003 2:00 AM |
| Bottle shock occurs between weeks 4 and ten , generally speaking, because this is the time that is need for the wine to stabilise(ie between one week through to six weeks.). It is also the amount of time that it takes for the wine to enter it's shocked stage (ie the flavourals reach a level that effects the wine detrimentally generally about week four.) Having said this I've had wines which were bottled two weeks ago and they are bottle shocked.
Travel shock technically takes about six weeks to settle down but I think it is dependant on the amount of disturbance, how far they have been shipped and a number of other factors (ie air frieght would be better than shipping across the Atalntic etc..) Because the nearest country to NZ is almost 1200 K's away, I tend to leave wine lying down for six weeks juswt to be sure. If the wine is from up the road (say Kumeu) it gets two days. | | | |
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