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Subject: CA Cab hits $750 Release; Screaming's latest release
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Eric WhiteUser is Offline
San Ramon, CA
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02/17/2008 9:51 PM  
No, I am not on the list, but apparently they have offered their latest at $750/btl, with a limit of two per customer.  Lots of ways to look at this, I've got my view, but what's yours? Will you be buying? And if so, buying to drink or flip?
VineUser is Offline
Milwaukee, WI
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02/18/2008 12:13 AM  
Wow! $750...
R8derUser is Offline
Livermore, CA
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02/18/2008 1:52 AM  
I wouldn't buy it at $100. There aren't a lot of bottles I would buy at $100!

Chris
WinetexUser is Offline
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02/18/2008 7:52 AM  
Can you really flip it for more than that? 
mountainmanUser is Offline
Mammoth Mountain
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02/18/2008 9:18 AM  
Chris, I think some of your favorite pinots will be closing in on that $100 before you know it.

Yes there is room for flipping on top of $750, at least they don't hold your $ for a year and a half before you get the bottles.

I am not on the list, not even a waiting list but if I was I would bail out now.
Edward BowersUser is Offline
Palm Beach Gardens
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02/18/2008 9:18 AM  
Gee I wanted to buy a case
JimmyVUser is Offline
Central Connecticut
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02/18/2008 9:43 AM  
Posted By Winetex on 02/18/2008 7:52 AM
Can you really flip it for more than that? 


This is an interesting economic question that brings both theory and practice into play.  There are obviuosly a lot of people out there (either in dot.com land, Hong Kong, Wall Street, Aspen, etc. who "have to have this wine" every year, and for whom $750 is no different than $1,500.  Sort of like the difference between $25 and $50 for the "rest of us" when it comes to a wine that we simply "must have".  So if these folks are not on the list, and everyone who is on the list continues to buy the wine at $750, the market for doubling their money will continue to exist as the vertical collectors will continue to shell out money to fill the slots in their cellars.  (Not to mention the handful of restaurants that will gladly pay $1,500 so that they can have it on their list for $2,500-$3,000.)  That's the "theory" part.
 
In practice, if the people who have been paying secondary prices are on the waiting list, they will move up as people get scared off from risking this much money thinking that they can't flip it.  As the secondary market transitions over to the primary market, the ability to flip disspates as the number of potential buyers shrinks. 
 
So in an unregulated market where antitrust doesn't come into play, if people who are currently on the list band together and grab all the wine, even at the newly inflated price, they will likely keep the secondary market afloat.  But since a perfect conspiracy is hard to pull off, in reality, people will dump their mailers, and many of the "money is no object" crowd who used to pay $1,200-$1,500 per bottle will find themselves able to get in on the floor level for $750. 

Beta testing a new signature.
BudmanUser is Offline
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02/18/2008 10:33 AM  
This is one mailer I'm glad I'm not on.

What you don't know won't hurt you!!!
rickym13User is Offline
los angeles
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02/18/2008 5:49 PM  
fortunately or unfortunately i am on the list. not sure what % of people who is on the list will drop even @ $750? i bet the percentage is very low.... i for one hate that price has gone up from $300 to $500 and now $750 within several years! but that being said...i am still going to buy it
even the off year such as '03 is going for over $1300 so i would think '05 will be over $1500 on secondary market. if you are offer 2 bottles and sell one for $1500....it is a no brainer.
i know that many of the wine collectors hates flipper but at this stage of the game...i don't see anything wrong with flipping wine to sustain your hobby/collection
DaveUser is Offline
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02/18/2008 6:27 PM  
At $750 I predict that almost everyone will flip at least one bottle.  No one will lose money with the 2005s, I do think that the days of one bottle paying for the entire allocation are over.  At some point the increased supply (on secondary market) will have an effect on the secondary prices. 
MTPocketsUser is Offline
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02/19/2008 3:25 PM  
Let's see: production is down by 25% so let's raise the price 50% to make up the shortfall in revenue (and then some). 
 
This reminds me of a story my grandfather told about Meyer Lansky.  Meyer owned a building in NYC.  When it came time for the fourth floor tenant to renew his lease, Meyer told him he was going to move him to the fifth floor.  The good news was his rent was not going to go up.  On the other hand, the fifth floor was only 1/2 the square footage of the fourth.
 
So I still get to spend only $1500 for my SE allocation but this time I only get two bottles instead of 3.
rickym13User is Offline
los angeles
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02/19/2008 3:27 PM  
just got the email from them....bought the 2 pack. they should throw in the shipping!
kpakUser is Offline
Alaska
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02/19/2008 11:24 PM  
I'm saving my $750 for 10 more Bresslers...




The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits...
ps - friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon.
VineUser is Offline
Milwaukee, WI
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02/20/2008 12:54 AM  
Posted By rickym13 on 02/19/2008 3:27 PM
just got the email from them....bought the 2 pack. they should throw in the shipping!
No doubt!!!!

R8derUser is Offline
Livermore, CA
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02/20/2008 1:41 AM  
Posted By mountainman on 02/18/2008 9:18 AM
Chris, I think some of your favorite pinots will be closing in on that $100 before you know it.

Yes there is room for flipping on top of $750, at least they don't hold your $ for a year and a half before you get the bottles.

I am not on the list, not even a waiting list but if I was I would bail out now.

They aren't quite there yet.  The most expensive Pinot I currently own is the Rochioli East Block.  It was $99 in 05, but that includes tax.  I always put the actual cost out the door on my spreadsheet.  This is also the most expensive bottle of wine I've purchased.  Keep in mind I have 1 bottle of this.  The next most expensive Pinot is the Rochioli East Block in 03 ($96), followed by the 05 Aubert's at $92.70.
 
Out of the 744 bottles of Pinot I currently own, only 26 bottles cost over $75....and none cost 10 times this amount!  I could buy 10 bottles of 05 Sea Smoke Ten, or 10 bottles of 02 Kistler Estate Pinot, for the same price as ONE bottle of Screagle.  If anybody buys this stuff and DOESN'T flip it they are fricking insane!
 
BTW..if you are in California, this wine is $810 a bottle with tax....and then there is shipping!  Yea-fricking-haw!  How do I get on this list!
 
My apologies to those on this list who lack sanity.  No offense intended.
 
I am so glad I don't like Cab!
 
Chris
Randy WiggintonUser is Offline
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02/20/2008 9:42 AM  
Screaming Eagle has gone beyond the "Cabernet" pricing and has entered the "Cult/Boutique" pricing realm. Much as Petrus, Le Pin, etc. It is no longer a wine that people purchase to drink and share; it is now an investment.

Oh well. I've had two vintages, and neither one did anything for me. For once I'm lucky...
VineUser is Offline
Milwaukee, WI
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02/20/2008 1:47 PM  
When wan't it considered a "Cult" wine?
rickym13User is Offline
los angeles
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02/20/2008 1:56 PM  
i really don't blame se for rasing the price to $750....i wish they kept it at $300-$500 but.
just got email from one of the store and saw the prices of 1st growth and they are more than eagle...can't really compare apples to oranges but these are the prices i got from premier cru:

'05 haut brion @ $800
'05 latour @ $1100
'05 margaux @ $1000

and they make thousands of cases.....
SFbaybumUser is Offline
Monterey Bay, CA
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02/20/2008 4:44 PM  
I'll be the first to admit I really don't follow Screaming Eagle because I'm not on the list and I'm definitely not inclined to pay secondary market pricing. That said, I agree with Jimmy that current economic factors could lead to the secondary market drying up, and if it dries up it makes the $750 release price that much weaker. Keep in mind that Screagle was sold to new owners in 2006 and Heidi Barrett left soon after. While their new winemaker (Andy Erickson) could be great, it would seem to me that these changes alone coupled with the softening economy could result in lower demand.

Of course, the real truth is there is enough ultra rich out there that Screagle could do away with the 2 & 3 bottle allocations and probably sell every bottle at $750 to the ultra rich by the case, or multiple cases for years to come.
Bob BresslerUser is Offline
Napa Valley
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02/20/2008 7:20 PM  
Posted By Vine on 02/20/2008 1:47 PM
When wan't it considered a "Cult" wine?

Their first vintage was the '92 and IMHO is still a cut above all subsequent wines.  WHen it first came out, no one knew about it and there were cases stacked on retailer's floors.  Sadly, I didn't learn about it until the following year.
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