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Asked for helping and now asking for yours - Expanding the Rhone section
Last Post 12-23-2007 09:20 PM byjason. 9 Replies.
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ChillyWino 

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12-19-2007 04:11 PM  
A friend of mine who manages a wine store in town has asked for my help.  He is looking to expand his French selection, but knows very little about Rhones.  He's asked for my help on what to stock the store with.  I've put together a list, but wanted to see what you guys would put in.

I divided my list up by Region(CDR, CDP, Crozes, etc) and then by price points.  I also included the popular names, since they would probably sell best up here.

So what should I make sure is on my list for each region and price point?
tanglenet 
Oakland, California

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12-21-2007 11:38 PM  
Chilly,

I'm pretty much a novice with Rhones. I drink Beaucastel, Vieux Telegraphe, Paul Coulon et Fils Boisrenard, de Nerthe and some Guigals. That's about the extent of my knowledge!
TN posted on Cellartracker" I drink no more than a sponge." François Rabelais
juggernt 
Tampa, FL, USA
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12-22-2007 08:35 AM  
I'd say Tanglenet's list is a good starting point for a retail shop. French wines and their labels can be scary for the American consumer.
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ChillyWino 

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12-22-2007 09:45 AM  

Here are my comments and what I sent to my friend.


Gigual, Chave, and Chapoutier are 3 names that are high in quality at almost all levels.  If you can get these names go for them.  They usually have good ratings and their lower to mid level stuff are great values.


I would try and get the bigger names(Guigal, Chap., etc) for CDR plus the ones mentioned by my friend.  Also check out Janasse, Jaboulet, Tardieu Laurent.


For CDP I would see if you can get Beaucastel, Clos des Papes, Pegau, Vieux Donjon, Clos st. Jean, Marcoux.  For values, Cristia, Milliere,  Beaurenard, Fortia Cuvee Baron.


For St. Joseph and Crozes Hermitage definitely get Chave, Chapoutier, and Guigal.  Great performers year in and year out.ÂSt. Cosme is also solid.


For Cornas and Hermitage(exp regions)  there are not too many options.  Delas is a good value in hermitage, along with Bernard Chave.  Chave and Guigal are the expensive ones here.  Chapoutier is also up there.  My favorite Cornas is Clape.


Cote Roite is an area where I have limited experience.


I also included some help from someone from another site.  Here is what he wrote.

Guigal anything for name, though in more than a few regions they do a lot of tie ins for the expensive wines. Even the basic CdR is usually very drinkable, and decent price points on the basic CdP and Crozes. Not my favorite producer, but a well known name, especially after getting the WS WOTY a couple years back.

Andezon CdR. Very low price point, and it ages well. Had the '98 about two years ago and aged VERY well, but also drinks well early. Usually found on sale around here in the $10-13 area. Mordoree Lirac for CdR and even rose.

Graillot Crozes. Yann Chave Crozes, La Rouvre and the basic Hermitage all have very good price points, and is becoming a value favorite in those regions. Especially the La Rouvre for value. Not a name producer, but nice price points.

Tardieu Laurent for northern regions, but one must be extremely oak tolerant when young.

Should I expect you have a good handle on regular CdP? Names like Pegau, Janasse Chaupin and VV, etc. And Beaucastel for name. Not sure how high priced to go in Recos, the Mordoree RdB exceeds $100 and then some. Chave if he can get it, but way too expensive for me.

All the Rhones have risen significantly the last few years, so I would have to check current pricing. In '04, I bought only Pegau and Janasse Chaupin. Nothing at all in '05, except some CdR (the Andezon stood out).

 

 

Parker loves Chapoutier, and they cover the gamut of price points. Not sure how WS feels about them. I run hot and cold on them, but if he is looking to limit labels or concentrate purchasing on as few distributors as possible...

Long time Parker favs with high ratings: Beaucastel, Pegau, Janasse, Clos des Papes (I am out at current pricing, but also has the WS WOTY going for it, so good brand recognition). IN the northernRhone, add Delas Freres as a good value and good RP ratings, at least in good vintages (the north is very vintage dependent). In Cote Rotie, Jamet is a personal fav with high ratings, add Ogier as another consistent, highly rated producer (I have not had much, hard to find around here). Same ratings, consistency, and lack of experience with Jasmin and Rostaing.

In Crozes, add to the below the Gilles Robin Crozes-Hermitage Cuvée Albéric Bouvet. I have heartily enjoyed both the 01 and 03 versions, but have never tried with with age. It is a producer I intend to keep trying and buying.

In CdR, correct the name to d'Andezon, not Andezon. In the Cotes de Ventoux, Chateau Pesquie, esp. Les Terrasses, is a perennial RP low priced favorite, and a damn good value in my book. In CdR, Gardine is a perennial fav of WS (the regular bottling, Generations does not seem to sell for the price difference). Bottles are a pain in the ass though, so be cautious. Another very good producer in my mind is Patrick Lesec. Always around 89-92s, very good value, never had a bad wine from them. They bottle from various areas in theRhone, I think they are a negotiant. St.-Cosme and Chateau St.-Cosme (they use both names) range from CdR on up inc. Gigondas at very good values. Pierre Usseglio at the higher price ranges, esp. the Mon Aieul, are favorites of mine and just about all reviewers.

CdR names would include Vieux Telegraph and Le Viuex Donjon (in the Pegau and Beaucastel style, long agers but don't show well young). Cuvee Vatican, esp. the REserve Sixtine, are always highly rated but one needs an extreme oak tolerance so not my favorite style. Never tasted anything more than 6-8 years old though, so maybe I am not a good barometer of their wines.

Domaine des Rémizières is a huge RP favorite. I have always been way turned off by the excessive oak. Domaine Jean-Louis Chave St. Joseph Offerus is a fairly consistent producer there, but the wines need some age (5-8 years, unusual for a low priced offering) since they don't show well young. Otherwise, I ahve very little experience with St. Joseph. In Cornas, most wines are extremely backward and uncivilized. Maybe just an acquired taste that I never acquired, but even at 10 years from vintage they have been backward brutes. I have not had one I cared for, but just my opinion.


If anyone can add or comment or the list/recommendations please do.  I will probably be helping him donw the road whne he finds out what is available in North Dakota.  I'm guessing quite a bit will not be offered.



Eric White 
San Ramon, CA

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12-22-2007 11:47 AM  
I would recommend adding Pierre Gaillard to that list, a terrific producer over a wide range of wines, both red and white (and sweet). Importer is N. Berkeley Wines. Also Delas Freres for the terrific Hermitage Marquise de la Tourette. Finally, Yann Chave is a producer on the rise, and the Hermitage is very reasonably priced.
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jason 
Napa Valley

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12-22-2007 01:46 PM  
Seems like you have the So. Rhone covered fairly well. In the Northern Rhone besides Chave, Chapoutier and Guigal you should look at:

St. Joseph
- Philippe Faury Rouge and Blanc (Kermit Lynch)
- Bernard Faurie - rustic

Crozes-Hermitage
- Yann Chave (about $20 wholesale, was imported by Martine's though that was changing)
- Alain Graillot - very reliable every year
- Domaine de Remizieres - can be good

Cornas
-Thierry Allemand (Kermit Lynch)
- Auguste Clape (Kermit Lynch)
- Alain Voge

Cote-Rotie
- Patrick Jasmin (usually retails about $50ish, Kermit Lynch))
- Jamet
- Rostaing
- Gaillard
- Ogier

Hermitage
-Jaboulet
-Yann Chave
- Delas Freres
- Tardieu Laurent (can be hit or miss, don't buy blind, taste first.)
-Obviously the above too - Chave, Chapoutier, Guigal

Condrieu
- Yves Cuileron
- Rostaing

That's a start at least.

Don't forget their is a lot more to the So. Rhone then just Chateauneuf du Pape. Some very good wines at great price points coming out of Gigondas and Vacqueyras etc.
ChillyWino 

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12-23-2007 04:53 PM  
Jason,

Thats a great list. Thanks so much. I didn't really dive into Gigondas or Vacqueyras because of my limited experience with those regions. However if there are some good values coming out of there I'll look into it. With a good price, good score, and a shelf talker, just about any wine will sell up here.

Happy Holidays,

Jeff
Winetex 
Austin, Texas

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12-23-2007 07:44 PM  
Chilly - add St. Cosme for Gigondas and CDPs at reasonable prices.
tanglenet 
Oakland, California

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12-23-2007 08:29 PM  
This is a great thread. Chilly, I hope you do a recap when you are done!
TN posted on Cellartracker" I drink no more than a sponge." François Rabelais
jason 
Napa Valley

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12-23-2007 09:20 PM  
Gigondas also add Domaine des le Paillieres and Domaine du Cayron from Ferraud. Vacqueyras from Domaine le Sang des Cailloux
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