Yes, GATC, pretty please?

gatc-great idea. i have already been using your recs.

This is my "buy list" and the numbers at the end reflect the number of bottles that I have bought, which reflects what I think/hope will be the best. Please remember that I went heavy on the Terry Theise selections because his catalog had a lot of information and he does have a lot (but certainly not all) of the great estates. Also, Bill Mayer, a Berkeley riesling specialist travels with Terry on the buying trips and he as a nice flyer that further describes the Theise selections (Lafon Rochet gave me that contact). In addition, the west coast distributor for the Theise selections/Skurnik imports, was very helpful in telling me which retailers ordered all of the hard to find wines. Another thing to consider is that I prefer Mosel's. I put in the Theise "+" system and the WA ratings where available.

Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermanshohle Spatlese 98 +++ Nahe $39.00 17
Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermanshohle Auslese 92 ++ Nahe $39.00 for 375ml -
Donnhoff Oberhauser Brucke Spatlese 94 ++ Nahe $33.99 18
Donnhoff Oberhauser Brucke Auslese 94+ ++ Nahe $39.00 for 375ml -
Donnhoff Schlossbockelhemier Kupfergrube Spatlese 95 ++ Nahe $39.00 12
Donnhoff Schlossbockelheimer Felsenberg Spatlese +++ Nahe $69.95 (auction) -
-
Strub Niersteiner Paterberg Spatlese ++ Rheinhessen $15.99 12
Gunter Wittmann Westhofener Morstein Spatlese ++ Rheinhessen $25.00 -
-
Muller-Catoir Haardter Herrenletten Spatlese + Pfalz $31.50 6
Muller-Catoir Haardter Burgergarten (2133) Spatlese ++ Pfalz $36.00 -
Muller-Catoir Haardter Burgergarten (2134) Spatlese +++ Pfalz $36.00 32
Muller-Catoir Haardter Mandelring Scheurebe Spatlese +++ Pfalz $35.00 -
-
Kurt Darting Durkheimer Nonnengarten Auslese ++ Pfalz $19.95 23
Josef Biffar Wachenheimer Altenburg Spatlese ++ Pfalz -

Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Spatlese + Rheingau $24.95 12
Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Schlossberg Spatlese ++ Rheingau $24.95 12
Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Magdelenenkreuz Kabinett Rheingau $12.49 12
Kloster Eberbach Steinberger Spatlese Rheingau $24.99 6
-
Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Kabinett ++ Mosel $14.99 -
Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Auslese ++ Mosel $27.00 -
Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Schlossberg Auslese + Mosel $25.00 6
-
Meulenhof Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese + Mosel $16.00 12
Meulenhof Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese ++ Mosel -
Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen 3 Spatlese + Mosel $16.00 12
Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen 13 Auslese + Mosel $20.00 6
Meulenhof Erdener Treppchen 15 Auslese **? Mosel $22.00 6
-
Merkelbach Urziger Wurzgarten 5 Spatlese 92 Mosel -
Merkelbach Urziger Wurzgarten 12 Spatlese 93 + Mosel $15.00 -
Merkelbach Urziger Wurzgarten 15 Auslese 93 + Mosel -
Merkelbach Urziger Wurzgarten 16 Auslese 94 Mosel -
Merkelbach Urziger Wurzgarten 20 Auslese 92+ + Mosel $20
-
J. J. Christoffel Erdener Treppchen Kabinett + Mosel -
J. J. Christoffel Erdener Treppchen Spatlese + Mosel $23.00 36
J. J. Christoffel Erdener Treppchen Auslese** ++ Mosel $39.00 7
J. J. Christoffel Urzinger Wurzgarten Kabinett Mosel $21.00 28
J. J. Christoffel Urzinger Wurzgarten Spatlese * Mosel $23.00 38
J. J. Christoffel Urzinger Wurzgarten Auslese ++ Mosel $25.00 29
J. J. Christoffel Urzinger Wurzgarten Auslese* +++ Mosel $32.00 3
J. J. Christoffel Urzinger Wurzgarten Auslese** ++ Mosel $39.00 2
J. J. Christoffel Urzinger Wurzgarten Auslese*** ++ Mosel $50.00 10
-
Herbert Kerpen Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese ++ Mosel -
Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Auslese ++ Mosel -
Hoffman-Simon Piesporter Goldtropfchen Auslese* ++ Mosel -
Schmitt-Wagner Longuicher Maximiner Herrenberg Auslese ++ Mosel -
Others (including some Fritz Haag) 10
-
Maximin Grunhaus Abtsberg Auslese Mosel $29.99 12
Dr. Loosen Erdener Treppchen Spatlese Mosel $21.99 6
J. J. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese Mosel $18.99 12
J. J. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese Mosel $22.99 6
Monchof Pralat Auslese Mosel $46.99 6
Monchof Wurzgarten Spatlese Mosel $20.99 1

Thank you, GATC. This is a "print, punch, and keep" type of post and will be invaluable to me.

Very much appreciated, sir.

WOW. This is a "find" or a "keeper" for sure. You are truly gracious to provide us with such info (as I am also venturing into these Wines). THANK YOU, Sir.

If anyone cares to, you can rate this thread using the little button on the bottom left.

Further, you can also use the little Reminder Icon to keep track of this post....

Further still, you can click on the "Favorite" link on the bottom left and have this show up in "My Home", the link on the top.

Hey GATC remember me in your will, I just made you famouse

Kidding of course but again thank you. I have got a few good ideas from your list that I have already found. This stuff is a steal at these prices. Possibly the best QPR region going

TCK

Thanks. I want to reiterate that this is heavily biased to the Terry Theise selections and it also has my heavy bias toward Mosel's. Maximin Grunhauser (the favorite of many in the Parker BB), J. J. Prum (always a favorite), Monchoff, Dr. Loosen and Kloster Eberbach are the only producers on the list that are not on the Theise selection list. There are a lot of other fine producers, but I just could not find good information on them.

This reminds me, I heard that ST's publication has some good information as well. Maybe someone can provide some insights without copying that information.

The one thing that I know from experience is that it is almost impossible to get any J. J. Christoffel Urziger Wurzgarten's other than Kabinett's. In addition to getting shafted on 2 cases of the Auslese ** (I ended up getting only 2 bottles of the 24 I paid for), I just got 0 of the 6 bottles of the spatlese from one retailer today and I paid for this 1-2 months ago. The retailer swore that they did not oversell - they just did not get what they ordered. And I thought the Kabinett was very good, even though it is pricey at around $21. Despite all of my efforts to get the auslesen, I only got 3 one *'s, 2 two **'s, and 10 ***'s. And I called at least 12 retailers that ordered Christoffel's.

GATC,

One question, why are there three entries for the JJ Christoffel Auslese Wurzgarden. Are They diffrent bottings?

TCK

TCK, yes. There is a "no star or asterisk" auslese, a one star, a two star and three star. I'm not sure (I'm sure others here can help clarify) but each additional star means that it is better lot. Certainly I would expect to pay more for each additional star and expect a bigger and more concentrated wine.

As I learned from tsunami in the WS Forum, there is an even more select classification. Whenever you see "auction" that means the estate has selected their best to take to the auction and the price is much higher. Also, you will see mentions of "gold capsule". The estates often uses this to denote that this is their best wine. I hope that I didn't mess this up too much, but I do know that you pay a big premium when you see "auction" even if the wine is called the same thing otherwise. And some distributors and retailers will refer to a wine as an estate's "gold capsule" meaning that they think it is the estate's best wine (but there will not be anything else to distinguish it).

Also, you will see different numbers (sometimes you will see fuder and a number or just a number) at the end. I believe that this distinguishes a particular lot (I would assume that it is like Cask 23). These can be tricky and hard to find on the label. I bought a lot of Muller-Catoir Haardter Burgergarten 2134. The 2133 is also supposed to be good, but the 2134 is considered better by some (at least by Terry Theise who selects what is imported). A retailer called me to say that she thinks she is sending me the right one, but could not find the number. I told her to look for a very small 2134 in the upper right hand corner of the label. I only knew because I had received some from another retailer and spent 2-3 minutes trying to find out whether they gave me the right wine.

Like anything else, the more you learn the easier it is to learn more about the subject. I've been a huge fan of German riesling when the 1971's came out and I bought a lot (at least a lot for a college student). When I drank them all by the late 80's, I didn't buy anymore since they have more poor vintages than good ones. I bought a few 98's and it reminded me of my love for these wines. When I tried the 2001 Maximin Grunhauser Abtsberg at the German Wine Society tasting, I was hooked again. I sold 10-12 cases of 97 CA cabs to pay for 34 cases of 2001 German Rieslings. Unless you buy auction wines, designated gold capsules, beerenauslesen, trokenbeerenauslesen or eiswines, the prices are very low for what I think are world class wines IMO. Besides, I tend to like the Kabinett's and spatleses unless I'm looking for a desert wine. For 2001, a lot of the estate rieslings and QBA's (in the $8-13 range) should be perfect for drinking young. I figured that it has been 30 years since they had a great vintage and since they age extremely well, I want to have enough in case they don't have a great vintage for another 30 years. I'm starting to understand what the word fanatic means.

I should add the following to the list:

Fritz Haag Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Kabinett Mosel $21.99 2
Fritz Haag Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Spatlese Mosel $29.99 3
-
Dr. F. Weins-Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese Mosel 23.99 2
Dr. F. Weins-Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese Mosel 33.99 1

Toni Jost Bacharacher Hahn Spatlese Mittelrhein 27.99 2

GATC - you are amazing. I've never been that interested in these wines but with your list and great TNs I'm starting to get interested.

Thanks, this is great info.

GATC,

Thanks I was looing at the stars in the store today and had no idea what they were. I know you live in Cali, but if you ever get to this area I found a store with all of the Christoffel Auslese's you were talking about. I bought some of each.
(they slipped a 2000 in there that I need to bring back, rookie mistake by me)
TCK

If he is going to be in our area, he BETTER tell us. Biggest Wine Tasting Dinner Party ever (the NJ-crowd held).

GATC- Appreciate very much your sharing this German information.

Just curious on your added comments, if you care to share them . Were the reasons relating to perceived future quality or just excess quantity for selling the 97's?

Yeah GATC, I get the fanatic thing too. These wines represent a great opportunity. I am usually priced out of aquiring a wide selection of good Cabs Bordeauxs and Burgundys when they have great years, but the Rieslings of Germanyy are right in my Wheelhouse. I never really brought them up because there was never a buzz around them in any forums. The great thing is that they are one of the few wines that I can share with my wife. She's not a big wine drinker but a good Mosel sure does turn her head! Thank you for being so generouse with your information. I'll post my list of must buy's (not nearly as extensive as yours) in the next few days for any one who's interested.

TCK

DrT, mainly excess quantity. I went nuts when the WS Big California Issue came out touting the 97's. I took the next day off and took off for Napa and filled up the car with about 10 cases. I ended up getting over 30 cases by the time I was through. I needed to free up space in my cellar and I had about 1/2 of my cellar maturing at the same time. I've had my disagreements with some of JL's ratings, but I had already adjusted for that about a year ago by selling ones that JL rated high and RP rated lower and buying wines that RP rated high.

TCK, my wife enjoys rieslings as well. It would be nice for everyone to post their TN's to get a good range of impressions. If you are finding the Christoffel Urziger Wurzgarten Auslese * (one star), they should be selling for around $32 or less, I'd like to get at least 2 cases. This is the most difficult wine to find. I'll be happy to buy them and will reward you handsomely.

GATC, wine-searcher.com is your friend. Get the professional version and lookup up "Christoffel Urziger Wurzgarten Auslese " with a vintage of 2001. There are currently six places that have it (although one is the four star). Four of the locations are in the USA, all back east. The other two are in London.

skwid, good idea. I've tried using Winesearcher.com for this and I've been able to see virtually all of the listing for all of the wines that I'm looking for except for the Christoffel Urz Wurz. It would only show me 5 of the 22. It is one of the few wines that I have not been able to see most if not all of the positive searches. I guess for this and a few others, it is worth paying the price the professional version. Have you had any luck getting any of the hard to find wines using Winesearcher? I've used it in the past and if a wine is really hot, it is already gone (and the retailer did not update the inventory) or the prices have been jacked up. I guess I shouldn't be cheap and pony up the $17 to get the professional version.

BTW, I picked up 11 of the 3 star at the Oakville Grocery in the Stanford Shopping center saturday. They have just received a case so I was going to buy it all, but the buyer pleaded with me to leave one for him to buy. He said that he normally does not stock German rieslings, but the distributor convinced him to get a case of the 3 star and a case of the Donnhoff Schlossbockelhemier Kupfergrube Spatlese rated 95 by the WA. I bought one of those to make it a case and get a 10% discount. I already bought a case of that on futures, otherwise I would have bought all of those as well. I just realized that I had only been working with one of the distributor (Hiram Simon). I actually met the one (Beccy Breeze) who supplied the Oakville Grocery. I should follow up with her on where she supplied some of the wines.

I should mention that although I have now received 80%-90% of the wine on my list, I bought all of them on futures and only started receiving them a couple of weeks ago. I'm only getting a chance to try them now.

Post deleted by GATC

Sheeesh GATC, that must make what, about 25 cases by now