JimmyV Central Connecticut
 Wine Connoisseur Posts:5110


 | | 02/26/2008 5:47 PM |
| | Bought all 9, but 3 are for a friend. | | Beta testing a new signature. | |
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tanglenet Oakland, California
 Wine Bottler Posts:3214


 | | 02/26/2008 9:27 PM |
| | Allocated 9 and 1, ordered 3. | | TN posted on Cellartracker "I drink no more than a sponge." François Rabelais www.tanglenet.com | |
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Vine Milwaukee, WI
 Grape Fermenter Posts:688

 | | 02/27/2008 12:37 AM |
| | ditto | | | |
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kpak Alaska
 Wine Thief Posts:2968


 | | 02/27/2008 12:47 AM |
| yeah me 2 (3) | | The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits... ps - friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon. | |
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Seamus Campbell Portland, Oregon
 Grape Fermenter Posts:401

 | | 02/29/2008 2:18 PM |
| | In for six. | | | |
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saut
 Grape Fermenter Posts:523

 | | 03/01/2008 12:17 AM |
| | 6 and a mag! | | | |
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rjs3 NJ
 Barrel Filler Posts:1124

 | | 03/05/2008 12:45 PM |
| No shipping to NJ  | | | |
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Vine Milwaukee, WI
 Grape Fermenter Posts:688

 | | 03/05/2008 1:38 PM |
| | It really seems as though shipping has become much more restricted in 2008... | | | |
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Budman
 Master of Wine Posts:11876

 | | 03/05/2008 3:15 PM |
| | They didn't ship to NJ last year either. That's primarily why I passed last year and this year. | | | |
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JimmyV Central Connecticut
 Wine Connoisseur Posts:5110


 | | 03/05/2008 6:11 PM |
| | Slight thread drift...Don't recall if this applies to D-P, but many wineries have a line in their mailer that says "If your state is not listed, contact us to make other arrangements". Often, that is no more complicated than paying CA tax and having WW Shipping Solutions, or some other shipper handle the transport. Other than the taxes, I have never found these other shipping options to be more expensive than your run-of-the-mill winery charges. Have folks had different experieinces?
| | Beta testing a new signature. | |
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Bob Bressler Napa Valley
 Wine Lover Posts:4862


 | | 03/05/2008 9:03 PM |
| I generally take the conservative approach to this. The scheme that JimmyV mentions is that you take possession in CA (thus the reason for the CA tax) and ship the wine to yourself. There are 2 gray areas here 1) did you really take possession? If the intermediary is a wine storage facility (e.g. 55 degrees) where you have an account, you can make a better argument than if it is only a shipper, and 2) are you really allowed to ship to yourself? That one has been debated a lot with strong arguments on both sides. The more orders a winery ships by one of these methods, the more at risk they are. They, of course, are risking their license whereas you are mostly just risking this wine shipment. | | | |
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JimmyV Central Connecticut
 Wine Connoisseur Posts:5110


 | | 03/06/2008 10:17 AM |
| Posted By Bob Bressler on 03/05/2008 9:03 PM They, of course, are risking their license whereas you are mostly just risking this wine shipment.
I always assumed that it was the failure to collect taxes that made this type of transaction dicey. So I always insist on having CA sales tax added even if the winery does not think it has to assess it.
Which license is at risk? California? I assume so, since they must not have a license from the state where they don't ship. I would hope that as long as CA gets their tax revenue, they wouldn't care too much about whether "possession" in this virtual age of ours means touching the bottles, versus "control" over what happens to the wine and how it gets moved from one place to another. I know I'm preaching to the converted, but if a person moves from CA to NJ, they can have their wine put on an Allied Van Lines truck and shipped to themselves. So I don't know why Allied can perform this service and Buffalo Shipping cannot.
| | Beta testing a new signature. | |
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Seamus Campbell Portland, Oregon
 Grape Fermenter Posts:401

 | | 03/06/2008 11:36 AM |
| | Has anyone who faxed in an order received an order confirmation? | | | |
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Vine Milwaukee, WI
 Grape Fermenter Posts:688

 | | 03/06/2008 1:20 PM |
| | not yet... | | | |
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Bob Bressler Napa Valley
 Wine Lover Posts:4862


 | | 03/06/2008 8:33 PM |
| Posted By JimmyV on 03/06/2008 10:17 AM Which license is at risk? Since I don't even play a lawyer on TV, some of this is still conjecture on my part. Wineries have (at least) two licenses - from the TTB and from the State they are in. States, of course, have the power to regulate the sale and distribution of alcoholic beverages, so they define the rules. For example, some states will allow you to ship wine to a customer if they bought it - in person - in your tasting room. Other states go so far as to not license FedEx or UPS to deliver wine, or I believe in some cases even transport wine. So, if I ship wine to a state that forbids it, that state could ask the TTB to pull my permit and since my CA license depends on the TTB one, that would go too. On the issue of shipping to yourself (and remember that I am with the good guys on this one too) you have to acknowledge the difference between a shipper acting as your agent and a storage facility acting as your agent. If I just decided that Buffalo (and I am not picking on them - they do a great job) was my shipping department and sent all my wine to them, wouldn't I be guilty of breaking the shipping laws when my ship list contained illegal states? | | | |
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JimmyV Central Connecticut
 Wine Connoisseur Posts:5110


 | | 03/07/2008 10:29 AM |
| Posted By Bob Bressler on 03/06/2008 8:33 PM On the issue of shipping to yourself (and remember that I am with the good guys on this one too) you have to acknowledge the difference between a shipper acting as your agent and a storage facility acting as your agent. If I just decided that Buffalo (and I am not picking on them - they do a great job) was my shipping department and sent all my wine to them, wouldn't I be guilty of breaking the shipping laws when my ship list contained illegal states?
It depends on from whom Buffalo is taking its instructions. If you, as the winery, use Buffalo as your shipping department, you might be breaking shipping laws. But if I as the consumer take "possession" of the wine from you in CA and have complete control, authority and liability for loss or breakage of the wine, and I instruct that the wine be picked up by Buffalo, then you have done nothing wrong. If the winery (like Pride) allows in-person pick-up, and I send my brother-in-law to Pride to pick up my wine, and Pride hands it over to him (assuming he is over 21), Pride has done nothing wrong. Now, if I ask Buffalo to stop by and pick up my wine, what's the diff? The answer to the situation you pose lies in the identity of the person who is using Buffalo as their agent. If the winery uses Buffalo as its agent, there is a problem. If the consumer uses Buffalo as its agent, there is no problem whatsoever. As long as CA tax is collected.
I'm not certain that this is exactly how everyone interprets or applies the law. But it should be. I, as a consumer, can authorize anyone I want to act as my agent for delivery as long as they are over 21. If Buffalo has the proper licenses to ship wine interstate, then everything is perfectly legal. I assume that they do, as they have been at it for a long time.
| | Beta testing a new signature. | |
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davidandrose Aurora, CO
 Grape Puncher Posts:939

 | | 03/08/2008 10:27 AM |
| Posted By Seamus Campbell on 03/06/2008 11:36 AM
Has anyone who faxed in an order received an order confirmation?
Haven't either. And given that when I was still buying Behrens (and this is made and handled through Behrens as far as I know, though the mailing address/fax# differ) they lost my faxed orders nearly 1/2 the time, you've prompted me to send an email inquiring. Thanks
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mountainman Mammoth Mountain
 Wine Bottler Posts:3163


 | | 03/09/2008 12:45 PM |
| | I'm supposed to pick up mine at the B&H facility on Friday, so I assume my order went through. | | | |
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saut
 Grape Fermenter Posts:523

 | | 03/13/2008 12:50 AM |
| | They charged the cc so I guess this is a go. Nice...6 x 750s and a mag! | | | |
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Vine Milwaukee, WI
 Grape Fermenter Posts:688

 | | 03/13/2008 2:57 AM |
| I too received confirmation, wine set to ship out next week...
Yay! | | | |
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