Randy Wigginton 
Master of Wine
Posts: 10874
 | | 11-18-2004 10:50 PM |
| What I find amazing is that PETA advocates can be very strict Vegans... yet support abortion. I don't get it at all. | | | |
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Elizabeth Brown
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 540
| | 11-19-2004 12:33 AM |
| I tell you it's because many do care about animals (down to the littlest lady bug) more than human beings. And it's not just being Vegan - in the strictest form you have to be a fruitarian and only eat the fruit of plants so no carrots or lettuce etc. | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2397
| | 11-19-2004 08:19 AM |
| Makes the Pork Tenderloins cheaper for me. Let them miss out. | | | |
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whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 11-19-2004 01:41 PM |
| Quote:
Righty on, whiner. I definitely think some factory farming procedures are undesirable, but since when has living in the wild until a day when a predator kills you been inhumane? I saw a red-tailed hawk kill a dove yesterday at my bird feeder, I guess I should let these people know since it sure looked like the dove was suffering. Maybe they can euthanize all the hawks. Or maybe they can teach them to be vegetarians. I am sure these are the same people that feed their cats and dogs tofu.
Ray, I completely agree. I would imagine 95+% of the population agrees with you. Hell, I know lots of people who call themselves vegetarian but DO eat fish!
My point was more about the idiocy of some of these groups. How can we take PETA seriously when they are taking these ludicrous positions. Do you remember when they called on a boycott of Survivor because the cast aways took to hunting and eating rats? It is insane. Greenpeace is the same thing, sometimes they are right-on. But no one will take them seriously on account of many of their tactics. And, as a liberal, I'm particularly fed up with groups like this who actually subvert liberal causes because they are operating on, what appears to be, a negative amount of brain cells.
a | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30915
| | 11-20-2004 01:22 AM |
| Can you believe this? The Brit's have outlawed any hunting with dogs. The "fox hunt" is a thing of the past. Quote:
Institutionalised by Britain's medieval aristocrats, modern hunting's popular image is of scarlet-clad horse-riders blowing horns as they gallop across country and jump hedges behind packs of hounds chasing their quarry.
Opponents call it barbaric and have hailed the ban as a victory for animals' rights. Supporters say it is an essential element of country life, proving employment for thousands and keeping a rural pest -- the fox -- at bay.
One could say that the poor fox is ravaged by these bunches of hounds and they would be right. So what?
Banning the old spring mouse trap is on the horizon  | | | |
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dbw4
Grape Puncher
Posts: 902
| | 11-20-2004 03:31 AM |
| Well what is so hard to believe about fish screaming? There are Clown Fish, so fish must laugh, too. And what about the Nurse Shark? Healthcare for fishies.....
DBW | | | |
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whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 11-20-2004 12:49 PM |
| Quote:
Institutionalised by Britain's medieval aristocrats, modern hunting's popular image is of scarlet-clad horse-riders blowing horns as they gallop across country and jump hedges behind packs of hounds chasing their quarry.
Opponents call it barbaric and have hailed the ban as a victory for animals' rights. Supporters say it is an essential element of country life, proving employment for thousands and keeping a rural pest -- the fox -- at bay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One could say that the poor fox is ravaged by these bunches of hounds and they would be right. So what?
Banning the old spring mouse trap is on the horizon
Davidn,
I don't want to get into a real debate on this, partially because I'm not certain how I feel about the issue myself, but I don't think it is as far fetched as you make it sound. At first I thought this was rediculous, too. But when I learned more about it, I was told that the foxes are generally caught and then released for the chase. They could have been killed humanely, but were not. Furthermore, the foxes suffer a slow, painful death. The dogs dissembowl, but do not eat them, and their furs are torn and unsuitable for use at making fur coats. Essentially, it is the torturous death -- for no material benifit -- of an animal which posesses somewhat advanced reasoning capabilities.
The reason I'm not certain how I feel about this is that I DO believe that the happiness keeping with tradition brings humans is of value. And, not being British, I do not understand the full ramifications of banning this sport versus not banning it. But, I believe foxes are morally significant beings and if there is no overwhelming reason to allow this to occur, seing as how the death actually helps no one, not even the dogs who don't actually eat the fox, it makes sense to outlaw it. To give a similar example, I love lamb, and I am all for the killing of baby sheep so that I can eat my lamb. I believe that is how the food chain works -- animals kill other animals for food (or, in human case, clothing). But I do not believe that any sadistic pleasure I get out of torturing a lamb to death is worth my ability to do so.
Humans are, basically, the only species that kill for fun rather than utility. And efforts to curb this type of killing should be, at the very least, considered. (Sadism is only of value between consenting adults.  )
a | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
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JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 11-20-2004 02:36 PM |
| The erosion of human liberty as exemplified in banning the fox hunt sickens me. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30915
| | 11-21-2004 03:02 AM |
| whiner, I hear what you are saying. The first thing I thought about was cock fights. It is a "sport" that has been practiced for hundreds if not thousands of years. It was outlawed early last century here in the states for the reasons you speak of. I disagree though that you think my analogy is not similar i.e. the mouse trap. Talk about the promise of the smell of cheese and suddenly WHACK. The mouse is lucky if it dies immediately. And rat poison; eat this good stuff and go back into your hole only to have your belly burst open. Talk about suffering. I think the banning of "the fox hunt" in UK is just another example of political correctness. I hate political correctness. I think it is wrong to tell me that I can't do something my father, and his father, and his father before that, etc., did. I hate to say, "Screw the foxes" but I think that is how I feel at the moment. What the hell else (I'll be sorry I asked this question) are foxes good for? This will certainly keep many a policeperson busy inforcing this law. "policeperson" That's just STUPID! | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30915
| | 11-21-2004 03:06 AM |
| And by the way... Merry Christmas  (speaking of politically uncorrect). And when you sneeze I say, "God bless you". I want a bumper sticker that says: Feed the Ducks. Eat Fish. The Hunt is Fun. | | | |
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cmsyrah
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 516
| | 11-21-2004 05:58 AM |
| I SO agree, Jones.
Whatever happened to tradition? As we evolve, we change habits and customs. Some are better left behind but most serve some purpose that is etched in history for a reason.
Texans are having a problem with deer running in neighborhoods because newbies to the state buy land and think they are watching National Geographic Moments when a deer comes into their back yard. They buy special "deer food" for them. Then reality hits when hundreds of Bambi's start eating their thousands of dollars worth of landscaping as a 'salad bar'.
The newcomers ask that the state of Texas NET AND RELEASE the deer somewhere outside of their estates. Yeah, well where? On the next ranch owner's land?
Unless we have a hunting season, the deer will outrun the people.
Deer breed deer. Foxes breed foxes.
Hunting each is beneficial.
Both, in their own way, cause irreversible damage in the ecological system if left unfettered. | | | |
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cmsyrah
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 516
| | 11-21-2004 06:08 AM |
| Quote:
Well what is so hard to believe about fish screaming? There are Clown Fish, so fish must laugh, too. And what about the Nurse Shark? Healthcare for fishies.....
DBW
Now THAT is funny.
How about a neon tetra instead of a 'night-light'?
An African Warrior fish instead of Iraq?
Gold fish at the end of a rainbow?
Blow fish at the end of......
oops.
Anymore? | | | |
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dbw4
Grape Puncher
Posts: 902
| | 11-21-2004 08:07 PM |
| I knew the crew from Texas had a sense of humor!! Good one, especially the last one!!   DBW | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30915
| | 11-22-2004 04:53 AM |
| I think we had better ban the game of basketball. | | | |
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rjs3
NJ
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1124
| | 11-22-2004 05:15 PM |
| Quote:
The erosion of human liberty as exemplified in banning the fox hunt sickens me.
Unfortunately, groups like PETA and the ACLU are really taking things too far. | | | |
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cmsyrah
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 516
| | 11-23-2004 02:16 AM |
| Quote:
I knew the crew from Texas had a sense of humor!!
Good one, especially the last one!!
DBW
DBW, We Texans must keep our humor.
We are having major flooding and soon will be swimmin' with those little fishies.
DavidN, on a more subdued note:
NBA players=testosterone driven puffer fish. | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts: 13786
| | 11-23-2004 06:15 PM |
| Quote:
Can you believe this. PETA thinks we should stop eating fish because of the inhumane way we catch them.
"Have you ever seen a fish when it comes out of the water on a hook? They're gasping for air through their gills and the look in their eyes. They are definetly suffering".
Fishing Hurts .com
Next it will be that eating plants is bad.
'Have you ever SEEN how they harvest corn with a combine?! The HORROR!'
So we will all have to become fruitarians, you know, eating things only once they fall off of a plant. Until...... | | | www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30915
| | 11-25-2004 03:58 AM |
| PETA is stickin its nose into Thanksgiving.
They say that free-range turkeys suffer because they are out in the cold too much.
Really! It was in this mornings paper. | | | |
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Randy Wigginton
Master of Wine
Posts: 10874
| | 11-25-2004 01:45 PM |
| David, where was that? I'd like to save that article for future reference. Talk about stupidity. | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30915
| | 11-25-2004 07:02 PM |
| IIRC it is in yesterday's (Wednesday) Merky-News Food section. | | | |
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