Ah, the fun of the English language. To look at both words:

cork (n): 2a. Something made of cork, especially a bottle stopper. b. A bottle stopper made of other material, such as plastic.

Basically, anything can be considered a cork, even a screw cap.

fake (adj): 1: fraudulent; having a misleading appearance [syn: bogus, phony, phoney, bastard]

2: not genuine or real; being an imitation of the genuine article; "it isn't fake anything; it's real synthetic fur"; "faux pearls"; "false teeth"; "decorated with imitation palm leaves"; "a purse of simulated alligator hide" [syn: false, faux, imitation, simulated]

So, fake can be used as an adjective to describe cork (a noun). However, since any bottle stopper can be a cork, fake is at best redundant, and at worst completely wrong. So in this example, fake should not be used to describe any cork. I no longer think fake is accurate, I agree with dgoerisch.

The confusing and enjoyable part of the English language is what happens when you string these two words together. "Fake cork" is incorrect usage if one assumes fake to be an adjective. But once the two words are joined together to communicate something, can "fake cork" be considered a proper noun? In other words, in common usage, will people understand that the communicator means a specific type of cork, or do they think fake is an adjective?

I daresay that the two words are not (yet) a proper noun. So it might be best to use adjectives, such as synthetic or natural to modify cork. To make it a proper noun, the brand name Neocork can be used, if that indeed is the brand name of the cork in use.

But, as our language continues to develop, "fake cork" may some day become a proper noun, if that usage begins to predominate.

So, the common usage of the word cork is inaccurate, since it describes any bottle stopper. Which means fake as an adjective is also inaccurate. And thus, we have our little failure to communicate here.

Mike

Question on the Neocork brand. Can one use an Ahso with these corks or must one use a tool with a screw (waiters corkscrew, rabbit, screwpull, ...). What about using one of those cheap winged corkscrews that all the nonwino friends seem to have? Will these work?

Quote:

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fake is negative imo, plain and simple. when i read fake my mind immediately thinks cheap and that leads to negative thoughts. everyone here can play words games all day, but at the end of the day, i would be willing to bet the farm, the average person equates fake with bad.

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I think you'll lose that farm. As Mike points out above, (or, more accurately, the definitions he cites point out), the word fake is often placed before the words "fur", "pearls", and "teeth". Now in the latter two, we use "faux", and "false", but the meaning is the same. Do you think of someone with "false teeth" to be cheap? Is someone with a fake fur cheap, or are they trying to stay warm within certain ethical bounds that they have set for themselves? I'll bet my farm that your wife has fake pearl earrings and/or a necklace. Is she cheap? Are you, if you gave them to her?

Again this proves that the word fake only has negative implications if you want it to. It isn't mandated.

There is one very obvious circumstance where I believe 'fake' can have a VERY positive connotation.... err...uhm...ahh..here.... Fake = good

I have used an Ahso on a fake cork. It works, but it takes more effort, as there is more slippage. Probably something to do with friction coefficients and/or surface tension. You know better than me.

WaltNYC: that was most excellent! Fuuuunny...

Point of clarification - I mentioned earlier that I broke a Screwpull Lever Model trying to extract a synthetic cork. I can't recall the wine or the type of cork but it wasn't the neocork that LWC uses. My experience with neocorks has been quite good. They come out as easily as a real cork.

mike,

my head is spinning after that one

More simply:

"Fake" by itself can have negative connotations, and usually does. I suppose one can say it also has neutral connotations, but I think it would be a push to say it has any positive connotations at all. In any case, using the word fake to modify cork is at best confusing and imprecise and leads to miscommunication.

Now, I frankly think it is wrong to use the two together.

Mike

I have rarely seen the word 'fake' used to modify any noun unless the connotation was negative.

Well, I must be slow or handicapped then, because opening the AP Vin bottle is the bottle I had in mind...since I do not buy too many wines with such corks. I try to stay away from wines with those corks, not a fan.

By the way, I no longer buy B&H wines. They use those corks also. But, it more has to do with the wine then the cork...

You know @ the end of the day all of us English-major geniuses can discuss this until there is no more grapes growing in Napa Valley...

It all comes down to this: Would we be having this conversation & 70+ posts IF the rating was a 92? How about a 95? Would we be having the same conversation???

Honestly?

LCC: That was my point too.

I can't believe so many people are posting dictionary entries, etc. on the meaning of the word "fake." Even if one stipulates that's it's a neutral descriptor, the review of the wine itself is not a positive one. I think it plays fairly for the message he's trying to convey - this is an O.K. bottle of wine. Words like "one dimensional" and "fake" go with his rating of 86, which is decidedly mediocre for a $44 bottle of wine. Quibbling over the adjective is missing the forest for the trees.

That said, I personally could not disagree more with the rating and I'm pleased to no end that I ordered a full 6 bottle allocation and was fortunate enough to get three additional at the time of order. I've very much enjoyed the bottles I've opened, as have the people I've shared them with. I may not have the sophisticated palate Jones has, but at the end of the day, I think Andrew and Brian are making their wines for people to enjoy and, in my humble opinion, they have succeeded.

Andrew

This has been a rather funny, but healthy, civil debate. And that’s what I enjoy about VC - a generally positive debate, free from the posturing, name calling and childish taunts found in other forums. Sort of similar thoughts as to Dr. T’s recent thread called “Wine Boards.”

You folks are neither fake nor synthetic.

IMHO...Cork is what it does, not what it is. As in 'put a cork in it'. I don't think it necessarily has to be made of cork to perform the function of a cork to be called a cork. Make sense?

No. Put a cork in it.