Jhawkwino
Grape Sorter
Posts:264
 | | 03/02/2004 12:43 AM |
| I have very little experience with aged bordeaux. In fact, I have really only had one that I can recall (and I don't recall the chateau). While that wine was not a first growth, it was an '89 that received critical praise... something along the lines of a 92 or 93 from WS. From what I could find on the wine at the time, it should have plenty of life left in it. I just didn't "get" that wine. It had a definite funk to it. Barnyard all the way. The fruit was there, but to my tastes it was completely overshadowed by the "funk."
My question is this: Was my experience normal? Does good mature bordeaux generally have a barnyard funk to it? Is this an acquired taste? Or am I just someone who doesn't like mature bordeaux (or aged old world wines in general)? Should I give it another shot?  | | | |
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Carl
Grape Fermenter
Posts:462
| | 03/02/2004 8:03 AM |
| What was the wine? Some can have quite an earthy, barnyardy profile, but most don't. Except as indicated below, most are made primarily of Cabernet Sauvignon (blackcurrant flavor with significant tannins). They don't taste all that different from top California cabs.
The stereotypical nose/palate profiles of the different appellations of Bordeaux are: (super oversimplified)
St. Estephe: tannic, somewhat rustic
Pauillac: "pencil shavings"
St. Julien: feminine
Margaux: aromatic, elegant
Pessac-Leognan: gravelly
St. Emilion (more Merlot and Cab Franc based): plums, leafiness
Pomerol (mostly Merlot): plummy | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Puncher
Posts:986
| | 03/02/2004 12:02 PM |
| First of all, an '89 is not mature Bordeaux. Depending on exactly when you had it, the bottle might still have been relatively shut down. And as for the earthy, funky qualities, was it by any chance Gruard Larose? They went through a period in the '70s and '80s where the wines (except the '86) were pretty darned funky IMO.
As for mature, try something from 1970. That's mature. '89 (and '90) are just grumpy adolescents right now. | | | |
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Rigga
Grape Sorter
Posts:288
| | 03/02/2004 2:30 PM |
| | Unless you've been collecting Bordeaux for many years or buying at auction, very few people have an opportunity to experience it. I was lucky enough to have attended acouple of tastings where one of our members does have an incredible cellar and he has shared a couple matured bottles with us. It opened my eyes to just how amazing a wine it can be with proper storage . The wines happed to be a 1927 Ch. Giscours and a 55' Ch Figeac. Both were unlike any other wine experience i had ever had. Since then i've picked up my level of buying Bordeaux and looking for older vintages. I only hope I live long enough to enjoy some of these wines before I will them to my kids. | | | |
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Jhawkwino
Grape Sorter
Posts:264
| | 03/02/2004 4:18 PM |
| Thanks for the responses.
I don't recall what wine it was that I tasted (I'll do a little research to see if I can figure it out). It was an '89 in the $40-50 range. From chatting with the store clerk (in whom I have a fair amount of faith) I got the impression that the wine should be holding up fine (I drank this bottle about a month ago), but that it was not necessarily a 20-30 year wine. I actually took the bottle back to the store and explained to the owner that I have no experience with bordeaux, and was experimenting when I purchased the bottle. I asked him to taste it (it had been open for less than 24 hours, and kept refrigerated over night), just so he could tell me if the bottle might be off or if this is what I should expect from the wine. He and I both tasted, and he said the bottle seemed to be in great shape. According to him, the "funk" that I was getting from the wine was typical of "mature" bordeaux. By the way, the store treated me wonderfully. Although he said he thought the wine was fine, he offered to replace the bottle with something else (there was no guilt/pressure, he just seemed to want a happy customer). When I declined, he said "well, there is half a bottle left, if you don't want it we'll drink it, so at least pick out something that is marked at about half the price." Needless to say, he now has a regular customer.
Anyway, the wine I tasted did not appeal to me at all. I am just wondering if that means I should give up on bordeaux, or if I should keep trying. From the responses I've read, it sounds like I ought to give it another shot. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 03/02/2004 4:29 PM |
| | i really can't help to much here. all i can say is of the few aged bordeauxs i've had, i have turned my cellar around and made it a bordeaux cellar. i love the stuff. | | | |
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GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 03/03/2004 2:44 AM |
| I would never buy a 15 year old wine from a retail store unless the store has a proper storage area, which is rare. Also $40-50 is on the low side for something of quality, especially if someone had to hold on to it for 12 years or so. I'm not overly impressed with what the store owner said either.
Hopefully you will be able to attend a function where there are some well aged Bordeaux's for you to try. I would not draw any conclusions based on this experience. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 03/03/2004 4:31 AM |
| jhawk,
now that is customer service. i love when i hear stories of awesome customer service.
by the way, never give up. if i am not giving up on pinot noir then you can't give up on bordeaux. i actually found one i liked. | | | |
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Budman
Master of Wine
Posts:11876
| | 03/03/2004 4:34 AM |
| One out of 50 isn't a very good percentage!    | | | |
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Carl
Grape Fermenter
Posts:462
| | 03/03/2004 9:28 AM |
| Quote:
Hopefully you will be able to attend a function where there are some well aged Bordeaux's for you to try.
That is very good advice, not just for getting to know mature Bordeaux but also other mature high end wines. You can more quickly get to know your palate and own tastes. | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13711
| | 03/05/2004 4:00 AM |
| Yeah, go to offlines, and you'll see what kewl stuff turns up. I've had some amazing stuff at offlines.
Hey Ant, what Pinot did you find that you liked? | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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ojeffso
warren, new jersey
Wine Lover
Posts:4877
| | 03/05/2004 5:15 PM |
| jhawk-first of all, james suckling of the wine spectator over rated the entire 1989 bordeaux vintage. i believe he still claims the 89 vintage was better than the 90 vintage. he is one of the few wine critics on the planet who thinks this. for the price you paid retail, the wine was probably of less stature even with its 92/93 point rating. it might even have beeen a wine like the 89 chateau olivier which suckling rated at 95 points and said do not drink until 2000. by 2000, this wine was already in decline and never was close to 95 points. a few years ago suckling admitted he made a mistake and rerated the wine at 86 points. parker gave the wine 84 points. add to that the unknown storage conditions and you probably had a wine that wasn't very good.
my point is, just because you thought you were drinking an excellent bordeaux, does not mean you really were. | | | |
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GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 03/05/2004 5:59 PM |
| ojeffso, well said. This reminds me of a 25th anniversary party that we attended where they served magnums of the 1977 Batailley. It was awful. At the end, they were raffling off the a few bottles that remained. I was hoping that I would not win.
These friends are easily the richest people we know (nice scientists who sold their company) and they could afford anything. Bad advice is bad advice and it should not reflect on the class of wine. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts:1074
| | 03/05/2004 10:02 PM |
| I've found that some of the best opportunities to taste old BDX are at tastings that are previews for aucitons, i.e. Butterfield's tastings. Perhaps they have similar tastings near you. I've also attended a few tastings at The Wine Club in SF. They have an Old BDX tasting just about every year and it's usually about $40 per person, but well worth it.
I've found old BDX to be less than overwhelming in general, but have been extremely impressed with the old Haut Brion's that I've tasted. The most memorable trait for these wines is the longlasting finish! And yes, I've noticed an abundance of barnyard funk, but don't be put off by that. | | | |
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Dr_Tannin
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2498
| | 03/05/2004 11:37 PM |
| | Isn't all wine an acquired taste? | | | |
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GATC
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2420
| | 03/06/2004 2:14 AM |
| | I only get barnyard funk with some Rhones. | | | |
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Tim
Barrel Filler
Posts:1465
| | 03/06/2004 3:59 AM |
| I think 'barnyard funk' is an extremely relative term that can be used by new Bordeaux tasters to describe the earth, gravel, and tobacco characteristics that is clearly Bordeaux. I have a friend who after 5 years of pouring good Bords down her throat still says 'tastes like dirt'... that's why we didn't date for very long...  | | | |
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Carl
Grape Fermenter
Posts:462
| | 03/06/2004 9:28 AM |
| | Normally I think of "barnyard" as a term used to describe Burgundy wines. In some cases, red burgundy does really smell like poop (could it be brett? I don't know). I have never gotten this smell with Bordeaux, only earthy-herbal smells. | | | |
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Joseph Bembry
Wine Lover
Posts:4875
| | 03/06/2004 1:03 PM |
| Good burgundy smells like SH!T! Definitely an acquired taste (aroma)
jb | | | |
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Tim
Barrel Filler
Posts:1465
| | 03/07/2004 8:08 AM |
| Good mussels IMHO taste vaguely like how I imagine cow [censored] to taste as well. A very distinct earth quality I believe good escargot has too.  | | | |
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