ChangeMe
Grape Sorter
Posts:377
 | | 02/17/2004 4:06 AM |
| | And how long does a California wine go into a dumb phase? | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15756
| | 02/17/2004 5:08 AM |
| Purple...
I don't think Zin will go dumb. I think it will just go bye-bye.
If a cab goes dumb it seems to me to be for about two years. Going dumb is a peculiar happening and cannot be predicted. Funny thing too is that many wines of the same vintage go dumb around the same time.
I wish I could say something smart about dumb but I can't. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 02/17/2004 5:46 AM |
| Quote:
I wish I could say something smart about dumb but I can't.
there's a joke in there somewhere, i just can't put my thumb on it  | | | |
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amy
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:37
| | 02/17/2004 5:55 AM |
| | will someone please explain what going into a dumb phase means. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 02/17/2004 6:22 AM |
| amyh,
Most wines (including white) go through a period called the Dumb Phase. Often it is about a year or so after bottling but this can vary due to a number of factors.
The Dumb Phase itself is a period when the wine is very closed, very tight and often exhibits ittle fruit. It is often most evident in those wines that normally exhibit huge fruit because of the contrast. However even in more austere style of wine a dumb phase will happen.
I have noticed it in good rieslings from Germany (particualrly 2001 vintage) Chardonnays from NZ (Kuemu River Mates) and nearly all reds from around the world.
It is caused by an imbalance in the anaerobic aging process of sugar/acids/tannins/alcohol. With the dominance of acid and alcohol in Whites and the dominance of acid,tannin and alcohol in red, it becomes more apparent.
It is called a "dumb" phase because the wine is not expressive of flavour or really even structure and is often dominated by one singluar character (extremely tannic or acidic etc..) | | | |
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amy
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:37
| | 02/17/2004 6:38 AM |
| thanks for the info  | | | |
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Budman
Master of Wine
Posts:11874
| | 02/17/2004 10:24 AM |
| Some of us here also go into a 'dumb phase' occasionally. I know I do!  | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15756
| | 02/18/2004 1:02 AM |
| Here is what my "Wine Lover's Companion" says:
Though the termdumb is sometimes used as a synonym forclosed , it really has a more complex meaning.. The dumb phase of a wine (generally red) is that period of transition from its youth to maturity. Shortly after botttling, a wine may be luscious, with rich, ripe aromas and flavors. However, after a certin period of time (usually several months), such a wine may begin to close down - the fruit begins to decrease before the complexities of maturity have fully developed. The combination of declining fruit and pre-emergent complexity cancel each other out, creating a wine that simply doesn't taste very good. Vintners have no idea what causes this phenomenon but do agree that the time frame for this dumb phase, which can last for several years, is completely unpredictable. The dumb phase of a wine is also reffered to as theflat spot or theawkward, transformational oradolescent phase . | | | |
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Raincheck
East Stroudsburg, PA
Grape Stomper
Posts:130
| | 02/18/2004 2:37 AM |
| Quote:
will someone please explain what going into a dumb phase means.
Open a bottle and I'll tell you about the time I was married to my first ex. | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 02/18/2004 4:07 AM |
| Quote:
Quote:
will someone please explain what going into a dumb phase means.
Open a bottle and I'll tell you about the time I was married to my first ex.
ROTFLMAO
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DJ Hombre
Napa Valley, California
Barrel Filler
Posts:1366
| | 02/18/2004 5:00 PM |
| Quote:
amyh,
I have noticed it in good rieslings from Germany (particualrly 2001 vintage) Chardonnays from NZ (Kuemu River Mates) and nearly all reds from around the world.
Out of curiosity, Jeremy, which `01 Germans do you feel are in a dumb phase? | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 02/18/2004 10:50 PM |
| I had posted a tn (early-mid 2003) about some FWG and Dr Loosen 2001 I had tasted. Rieslingfan commented he had found them to be much more expressive than I had found them. He noted that many rieslign appeared to go through a dumb phase that lasted about 6 motnhs. I am sorry i can't remember the exact wine or vintage.
I think white wines tend to have a considerably shorter dumb phase then reds due to the limited amount of tannins that are evident in White wines. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Sorter
Posts:377
| | 02/19/2004 3:45 AM |
| Jeremy, you are on a roll...How long is a Kumeu dumb? I have a hard time imagining a Chard going dumb, just flat. I just imagined that a Kumeu would only have a life span of 2 years anyway. Not that I have any experience . Just curious on the Kumeu.
Thanks to everyone for their insight. | | | |
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Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 02/19/2004 7:37 AM |
| I think KR chard can go four years quite happily. But it is certainly on the downhill side at five, unless from a really good vintage.
The Mates Chard seems to have a dumb phase for about a year, generally about six monthes after it is released (keep in mind this often a year after vintage ..so the 2001 I drank with Otis was probably just coming out of its dumb phase.)
The standard Kumeu River label from my expirience has about a 6 month dumb phase again about six monthes after release. But as I said earlier it tends to be less obvious in restrained and reductive wines, which Kumeu River certainly is.
However both wines I have expirienced during a dumb phase, really hard and really acidic with almost no fruit. I have expirienced the 2001, 1999, 1996, and 1994 Mates all in the "dumb"phase. six monthes to year later and they seem bloody good.
But these time frame constraints really are just educated guess's. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts:27
| | 02/19/2004 1:40 PM |
| | After drinking a bottle of Zinfandel, I know I go dumb for a while. | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13707
| | 02/19/2004 4:14 PM |
| Quote:
After drinking a bottle of Zinfandel, I know I go dumb for a while.
LOL dude | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15756
| | 02/19/2004 5:35 PM |
| Quote:
Quote:
After drinking a bottle of Zinfandel, I know I go dumb for a while.
LOL dude
What? I thought that statement went unsaid by all of us. What are you LOL at tj?
I suppose you've never been there.
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts:13707
| | 02/19/2004 9:22 PM |
| Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
After drinking a bottle of Zinfandel, I know I go dumb for a while.
LOL dude
What? I thought that statement went unsaid by all of us. What are you LOL at tj?
I suppose you've never been there.
No, I have TOTALLY been there, Pops. I remember my first real Zinfandel was back in 99 in Calistoga at the now gone Cin Cin. Knocked me out! | |
www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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