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Subject: Cali Cab Question

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DJ Hombre

Napa Valley, California

Barrel Filler
Posts:1366

11/03/2003 7:41 AM
Why is it Cali Cabs / blends don't have the reputation for being able to age 20+ years like a Bordeaux? What exactly is different between the two. I have yet to taste a Bordeaux, btw. I'm just curious on this.

ChangeMe

Grape Stomper
Posts:152

11/03/2003 1:03 PM
DJ, You're going to get lots better answer than this one, but I think it is largely a question of finding the right spot to grow the vines, the right clone, etc. , try it out, and then when it works, establish that reputation of ageworthiness. The last one is what really takes time. It is my understanding that, in many cases, up until fairly recently Napa was planted mostly with what the growers wanted to make, not with what was the optimal for the spot. I doubt there is any reason CaliCabs couldn't last as long as bordeaux. The growers just have to find a spot for the vine where vine (and wine) will be balanced and suitably concentrated. Finding such a spot might take a very long time. Once that is done, you have to prove that your wines do age that long. And before you get that rep, well... Bordeaux has been around for ages and thus have had time to find all the right spots for vineyards and time to establish that agewortiness rep. Then, and this is just my guess, the brits were largely the ones who wanted aged wines. The bordelais liked to drink the wines a little younger. The american palate also seems to like the fruitforwardness of young wines. While my experience of Calis is very, very limited at best, they are much more fruitforward wines than the old traditional wines from Bordeaux, and thus probably more aprochable as young. So maybe, over the years, there also has been less interest on part of the consumer to age Calis than Bordeaux? Well, that's my 0.02€. [Message edited to clearify meanign of reputation.]

Pool Boy

Laurl, MD (DC suburb)

Master of Wine
Posts:13711

11/03/2003 1:21 PM
I am no expert DJH. But I would think that some amongst us here would argue that there are certainly some, if not many, California Cab/Cab-blend wines that are able to go the distance. Just look at some of the TNs posted from wines from the 70s (see skwid's (I think) recent note on the 76 BV GDL... If you are making a 'gross generalization' about all wine of California, then perhaps what you say is more true than not. But I suppose one could also argue that plenty of Bordeaux wine is not meant to or able to go the distance. I have probably not been much help here, but it's early and I haven't had any coffee yet.

www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com

ttepper

Barrel Filler
Posts:1312

11/03/2003 2:22 PM
I would say that wines from Dunn and Diamond Creek have a reputation of being 20+ year wines...

Seek

Upstate NY

Wine Thief
Posts:2772

11/03/2003 2:40 PM
My somewhat educated guess for this topic (I may be wrong) has a lot to do with winemaking skills and where it all starts......with the fruit. California is full of fantastic winemakers now and 20, 25, or more years from now we may see some fantastic wines that have gone the distance beautifully, but only time will allow us to see this. Before the 1990's only a few wines seemed to be made to a quality that should allow them to go two or more decades, but the numbers were few IMO. Now with the quality winemaking jump in the last decade plus older higher quality vines, more wines may be able to go the distance, but again we will not know for many more years. As time goes essentially more and more labels may prove to age. Bordeuax on the other hand has a century and a half + of history with many of the skilled winemakers having "recipes" handed down to them from previous generations. So we here in the present and last 100 years seem to see far more wines from the Bordeaux region capable of going many decades, where that may not have been the case when Bordeaux first started to produce wines (I really do not know). Also another thing to remember is not all Bordeaux age, we just seem to talk about the ones that do. In terms of percentage of wines that can age 20+ years in Bordeaux, I would imagine California will/is catching up to that percentage..........time will tell.

JimmyV

Central Connecticut

Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5110

11/03/2003 3:17 PM
First, as stated above, many CAN age well for 20+ years. Second, I would say that those that don't/can't are made specifically for early consumption in order to bring a financial return back to the winery to pay off start-up cost debt. Great Bordeaux come from age-old Chateaus that are either owned by multi-national billion dollar coprorations, or investors that have long-since retired the start-up cost debt. California wineries are a rather new invention that took much more capital to get up and running. Owners/investors/bankers need to see a return on investment. The best way to get that return is to sell product. The best way to sell product is to make a product that everyone loves right out of the shoot. The wine must taste great upon release so that ratings, word of mouth, and "buzz" generate sales in the very next vintage. Making a wine that is so tannic and acidic that it would age for 20+ years would be a bad way to recoup debt. Hard corp collectors might appreciate the effort, and buy the wine. But the other 99% of the wine-buying public would not. If you shut yourself out of that 99%, you will surely fail as a business. So in order to capture the widest audience, wineries must make wines that are enjoyable almost immediately. Hence the fruit-forward "bombs" so common in California. Brisk sales at the beginning of the venture are the only way to pay for the acreage and equipment that put so many wineries in an immediate hole upon start-up. But once a winery has that under control, and has captured the attention of enough buyers, it can move toward the longer aging wines of which you speak. See Ch. Montelena, Dunn, Diamond Creek, Beringer Reserve, among others.

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David Niederauer User is Offline

Los Gatos, CA

Master Sommelier
Posts:15756

11/03/2003 6:35 PM
There are many, many "table wines" from Bordeaux (for that fact all of France) than we see here in the states. My guess is it would be over 90% of their production. These wines are made for drinking immediately and will not age. One can even go directly to the winemaker with their own jug and get some out of the barrel for that evening. 90% of the Cabs out of Napa are not made to age either. We seek after those that are and we call them collectibles. Then we commit "infantacide" and "laugh" about it. Dunn, Stag's Leap, Montelena, Phelps, and several more make wines to last. The proof of the pudding will be in 50 years so we'll wait and see.

Randy Sloan User is Offline

St. Helena

Barrel Sampler
Posts:2075

11/03/2003 6:50 PM
Differing skills and styles certainly play a role. But it's important to consider what caused those styles to develop (in addition to Mr Parker's and others' tastebuds). It's a question of using the hand you're dealt. California enjoys a lot more dependable (and predictable) growing season than the French. In more years than not, we have weather that allows the grapes to ripen to a fruitiness that pushes the style that's made California famous as a wine growing region. Also, the mild, cool nights of some regions like Napa, Sonoma, and the Central Coast allow the grapes to maintain flavor and acidity at a desirable level. The Bordelais, on the other hand, have much trickier weather to deal with and have had for centuries. Their style developed with them using winemaking techniques that require aging to bring the wine to a distinctive and marketable style and taste. That being said, IMO California wines are ageable but they're more attractive than their Bordeaux counterparts in their youth. I don't have the wine drinking experience for such a comparison, but it would be interesting to compare aged California wines from a great vintage versus aged French wines from a great vintage.

Randy Sloan Match Vineyards

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