Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
 | | 03/06/2008 5:17 PM |
| I've learned that each state in the US is an AVA. So is each county, in each state. Which leads me to this question...
Would a wine 100% made in St. Helena AVA be this: United States > California AVA > North Coast AVA > Napa County AVA > Napa Valley AVA > St. Helena AVA
Or United States > California AVA > North Coast AVA > Napa Valley AVA > St. Helena AVA
Or something different?
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If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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jaimetown
DC area
Wine Labeler
Posts:3504
| | 03/06/2008 6:35 PM |
| Cellartracker has the following hierarchy for Bressler FWIW:
USA, California, Napa Valley, St. Helena
Bob? | | | |
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Bob Bressler
Napa Valley
Wine Lover
Posts:4864
| | 03/06/2008 8:12 PM |
| | Napa Valley is an AVA, St Helena is a sub-ava. as you know, the whole question of sub-avas is up for review. | | | |
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Randy Sloan
St. Helena
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2076
| | 03/06/2008 9:11 PM |
| For labeling and classification, Authorized Appellations of Origin include Country, State, Counties, American Viticultural Areas (AVAs), and their foreign equivalents. An AVA is a recognized (by the govt) wine grape growing area. For example, Napa Valley is an AVA. Napa County is simply an Appellation of Origin the same as any other county in the US would be. Appellations on TTB website | |
Randy Sloan
Match Vineyards | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/06/2008 9:15 PM |
| Isn't Napa Valley AVA also a Sub-Ava To the North Coast AVA, which consists of I believe six County AVAs, one of which is Napa County AVA?
And according to wine bottle labeling standards.... all counties in the country are AVAs. Essentially, I'm trying to figure out what should be nested within each other, and what shouldn't be. A winemaker, I believe, can label his wine as being in any part of the heirarchy (provided he follow some guidelines of course), and depending on where his grapes are grown, he might only be in the California AVA, or perhaps in the North Coast AVA, which is definitely within a County AVA. So at minimum, he'd be down to the County level AVA. But if he's in Napa Valley, he can label is Napa Valley wine, and if he's in one of the Sub-AVAs, he can label it as St. Helena wine. So to get all the way down to St. Helena, he's really inside of 5 AVAs (not include the "United States" as an AVA) So wouldn't the heirarchy REALLY be: United States > California AVA > North Coast AVA > Napa County AVA > Napa Valley AVA > St. Helena AVA?? (not saying that should be on the label, just trying to figure out what people might want to search within for finding things on VC) So you see my alterior motive now in asking the question... | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/06/2008 9:18 PM |
| So in using Randy's terminology from the TTB website (hate that website, been staring at it for far too long lately).... Appellation of Origin goes down to the county level.... And from there goes to American Viticultural Areas (AVAs). So if I just change my labeling in my previous post, the real question still stands. | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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tanglenet
Oakland, California
Wine Bottler
Posts:3216
| | 03/06/2008 10:22 PM |
| | ooooooooooooooooh, I'm getting a headache. Good thing I have this glass of wine in my hand. | |
TN posted on Cellartracker
"I drink no more than a sponge." François Rabelais
www.tanglenet.com | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/06/2008 11:32 PM |
| | Hah, so you feel my pain... but I only have a glass of water. | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/06/2008 11:36 PM |
| | Well, the more time I spend on the ttb.gov site, the more confused I am. They use three terms interchangeably. Appellation of Origin, US Viticultural Area, and American Viticultural Area. http://www.ttb.gov/appellation/us_by_ava.pdf | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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Randy Sloan
St. Helena
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2076
| | 03/06/2008 11:36 PM |
| | The fly in the ointment is some AVAs comprise vineyards in more than one state such as Lake Erie AVA and Ohio River Valley AVA. Also, folks generally don't think of wines from Stags Leap District AVA as being from the North Coast AVA as well. There's no perfect way to do it, but I guess if I was trying to design a nesting for a database, I would do something along these lines without requiring someone to fill out all fields.
| United States |
France |
United States |
United States |
| California |
Bordeaux |
California |
Lake Erie AVA |
| Napa County |
Medoc |
Stags Leap District AVA |
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St Julien |
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I wouldn't differentiate between sub-AVAs. Ugh, now my head hurts but at least I was reminded how to hand code HTML tables. | |
Randy Sloan
Match Vineyards | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/07/2008 1:20 PM |
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I'll have to put more thought into this. I want to keep the hierarchical nature of it for search purposes, but think I'll flatten it out for entering in new data.
For instance, if you are entering a new location for a winery, You'll select the country, then get a dropdown list with the state/region, and right from there be able to pick the appellation, no matter how high up or down the hierarchy it is. | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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jason
Napa Valley
Wine Addict
Posts:6888
| | 03/08/2008 2:04 AM |
| Brad,
Check out http://wine.appellationamerica.com/
They have the whole drop down menu etc. I use this site far more than the ttb, only referencing the ttb for acreage and to see if something may have changed. | | | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/08/2008 11:17 AM |
| | Thanks Jason.. I've actually been in and through that site as well. Really great site though a bit difficult to follow for my purposes. When they list other appellations that link to another particular appellation, they don't really tell you how, they just list it. | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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jason
Napa Valley
Wine Addict
Posts:6888
| | 03/08/2008 11:24 AM |
| I guess it just takes a base of understanding but I understand where the confusion can come from. When you click on overlapping AVA's it doesn't necessarily tell you whether the AVA listed are sub AVA, larger AVA in which the one you are looking at is the sub, or even large general AVA like North Coast, Central Coast. Then they throw in County AO which can make it even more fun.
I have some guides I made for the US with CA, OR, WA specifically that I wouldn't mind sending you, but they may be as confusing as well. | | | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/08/2008 11:27 AM |
| | Exactly! Those are the three states with the most issues... California especially of course. I'd love to see what you have. I appreciate the help! | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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jason
Napa Valley
Wine Addict
Posts:6888
| | 03/08/2008 11:47 AM |
| | Sent, call me for a brief explanation though. Number is in my e-mail. | | | |
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jason
Napa Valley
Wine Addict
Posts:6888
| | 03/09/2008 1:18 PM |
| | As you move into other countries let me know if you need any assistance. I have info like I sent you yesterday or its in my head for almost every wine producing country there is. | | | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/09/2008 2:10 PM |
| | What you sent is invaluable... and will help tremendously. Thank you! | |
If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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Bradley Molzen
Bayonne, NJ
Wine Lover
Posts:4991
| | 03/09/2008 4:46 PM |
| Looks like I'll just break them out into "Origin Types" which should hold across all countries... (with different types for each country of course).
The US will have:
State Appellation of Origin (AO)
County Appellation of Origin (AO)
American Viticultural Appellation (AVA)
Should I have a "Super AVA" type for AVA's like North Coast AVA?
Should I have a "Sub AVA" type for AVA's like St. Helena AVA (which is inside of Napa Valley AVA)?
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If you drink wine, you get smarter.... | |
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Bob Bressler
Napa Valley
Wine Lover
Posts:4864
| | 03/09/2008 5:08 PM |
| Posted By Bradley Molzen on 03/09/2008 4:46 PM
Should I have a "Sub AVA" type for AVA's like St. Helena AVA (which is inside of Napa Valley AVA)?
This one is important given people's familiarity with Oakville, Stag's Leap, etc.
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