pizinah
Barrel Filler
Posts:1313
 | | 10/28/2006 6:24 AM |
| | Curious about different uses/interpretations of this word as a descriptor... How doyou use it and what wines would you cite as examples? | | | |
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incident
Grape Stomper
Posts:107
| | 10/28/2006 3:02 PM |
| So the definition of "brambly" is:
noun, meaning "A prickly shrub of the genus Rubus, including the blackberry and the raspberry."
I have always wondered how this translates into a tasting note. I have seen it quite often used in notes for Zinfandel, often coming from Paso Robles. The funny thing is that often those same notes contain the words, "blackberry" and "raspberry".
To my palete, blackberry or raspberry is much more indicitive of a wine that I would buy than a wine with a description of "prickly shrub".
The word brambly, to me anyway, is not really a good descriptive term for wine. Blackberry or raspberry however, is an excellent descriptive term.
My $0.02
Erik. | | | |
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Appreciative
Beaverton, OR
Grape Fermenter
Posts:416
| | 10/28/2006 6:36 PM |
| | I've associated this description with all aromas and flavors you pick up when you're next to a raspberry or blackberry bush. In the fruit, you can also taste the flavors from the wood, stems, and leaves. | | | |
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Vitis Vinifera
Grape Sorter
Posts:318
| | 10/28/2006 11:43 PM |
| I'll agree with Paso Zins, but you find it in Zins from the North Coast also -- Seghesio has some brambly Zins (and I love them).
This, like most descriptors, is better experienced first-hand than described, because exact descriptors will vary, but when you have a brambly Zin, everyone with a palate agrees. | | | |
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whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts:2870
| | 10/29/2006 1:06 AM |
| | I use the word "bramble" to describe the flavors that I would associate with the smells of raspberry/blackberry stickers and stems. Bob Levy wines often have a bramble component to me. As does the occasional Cote Rotie and Priorat. Rafanelli Zins can have this, too. | |
I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
-- Woody Allen | |
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pizinah
Barrel Filler
Posts:1313
| | 10/29/2006 7:13 PM |
| I usually associate "brambly" with a certain dusty, spicy, peppery, slightly stemmy/woody quality present in some CA zins (Turley at times, for example) and occasionally CA petite syrahs and syrahs. I don't associate the term as much with the specific taste of blackberries or raspberries. Brambly wines for me usually also have a bit of a scratchy mouthfeel/texture (not overly soft or perfectly round). I thought a delicious RFV PS I had recently was a bit brambly. For me the word usually (though not always) has positive connotations.
On a related note, do you use "briary" (or briery) interchangably with "brambly" and if not how would you describe the difference? | | | |
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GreenDrazi
Atlanta, GA
Grape Puncher
Posts:933
| | 10/30/2006 12:30 AM |
| IMHO, brambly is most closely associated with wild blackberries or the stems of blackberry which can have a subtle prickly component. But I think it can also be used to describe a rumble-like or wild-like characteristic having little or nothing to do with blackberries. In other words a sort of rough characteristic. It can either be a positive or a negative descriptor for me.
Briary or briar patch on the other hand is more of an extreme version of brambly with much more emphasis on a prickly stem like quality. Usually towards the negative side of descriptors for me. | | | |
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Serge Dracula Slayer
South Florida
Grape Fermenter
Posts:663
| | 10/30/2006 2:28 PM |
| Quote:
IMHO, brambly is most closely associated with wild blackberries or the stems of blackberry which can have a subtle prickly component. But I think it can also be used to describe a rumble-like or wild-like characteristic having little or nothing to do with blackberries. In other words a sort of rough characteristic. It can either be a positive or a negative descriptor for me.
IOW, this is a descriptor which doesn't mean much and open for interpretation. Just like "fresh drawn blood". | |
http://NothingControversial.com | |
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GreenDrazi
Atlanta, GA
Grape Puncher
Posts:933
| | 10/30/2006 5:25 PM |
| | Just about every descriptor which draws an analogy beyond just using a basic fruit varietal is open for interpretation. And they all mean something, unless you have no palate. | | | |
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Serge Dracula Slayer
South Florida
Grape Fermenter
Posts:663
| | 10/30/2006 6:04 PM |
| Quote:
Just about every descriptor which draws an analogy beyond just using a basic fruit varietal is open for interpretation. And they all mean something, unless you have no palate.
and what is the value of the descriptor which means different things to different people?
1+1=2 is universal
1+1=2 when it French
1+1=3 when it American
1+1=1 when it Spanish
is not and exersize in futility. | |
http://NothingControversial.com | |
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GreenDrazi
Atlanta, GA
Grape Puncher
Posts:933
| | 10/30/2006 6:42 PM |
| | An exercise in futility is explaining the difference between language and science to those who don’t understand. For the rest of us, it’s called the appreciation of the human spirit. | | | |
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Serge Dracula Slayer
South Florida
Grape Fermenter
Posts:663
| | 10/30/2006 6:52 PM |
| exactly, I was always a proponent that language is not a science, the rules of grammar and spelling are not real scientific laws written on the walls and the use of them would stiffle the appreciation of the human spirit.
I is glat you has provitet a verry brumbling ixplenaceon, and now everybody got it. | |
http://NothingControversial.com | |
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Marcel
Grape Puncher
Posts:875
| | 11/01/2006 4:29 PM |
| | This is a thread drift, but grammar and spelling are not scientific laws, but rather an observation and orientation on the use of language in a certain time and place. Language changes over time since it depends on humans and society (the users of language) to the point of creating new languages. Otherwise we would be speaking Old English or even Latin here. An expression, a spelling or a grammar problem deemed wrong can become accepted, right or even the norm should enough people start using it over time. e.g., wyfman was the correct definition of woman in Middle English, but how did it became woman? "Wrong" spelling, "wrong" pronunciation, etc. by people, not "grammar scientists". The same applies to grammar. Not saying it is so subjective or that grammar rules and spelling instantly change, but its not set in stone - a word can have different meaning to different people, and different people in different communities or countries can have different grammar and spelling rules. Recognize vs. recognise, "the government are" vs. "the government is", "on a team" vs. "in a team", "fanny" vs. er... "fanny" in the UK, and so on... | | | |
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Randy Sloan
St. Helena
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2059
| | 11/01/2006 4:38 PM |
| I never use "brambly" as a negative. For me, it's when the raspberry, blackberry or other cane fruit is integrated very closely with a woody or green characteristic but in a pleasant way. If the wine is unbalanced, I'll stress more the wood or green characteristics. It also has the connotation of being a bit "wild."
Typically I find it in Zins but occassionally I'll note it in Syrahs. | |
Randy Sloan
Match Vineyards | |
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kpak
Alaska
Wine Thief
Posts:2910
| | 11/02/2006 2:32 AM |
| | I agree with babnik. Its a combination of the tastes and smells of the wilder berries which is not a negative thing. I like wild berries. | |
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits...
ps - friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon. | |
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KillerB
Barrel Racker
Posts:1533
| | 11/03/2006 3:47 PM |
| Well, a bramble bush to me has blackberries on it and I remember picking wild blackberries as a child, so I'm more than happy to use "brambly" knowing exactly what it means to me.
Mars - love your summation of the English language. Truth is that many grammatical changes have occurred over the years but there are rules to follow for good contemporary English... and how these rules are broken. I hate the use of the verb 'To Impact', as to me that is something that happens to a tooth. The latest Oxford English Dictionary now allows it to mean 'have an impact upon' - oh well, I lost that one. | | | |
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dbw4
Grape Puncher
Posts:902
| | 11/23/2006 5:23 PM |
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There are times when I pick up a brambly aroma or flavor that is more unripe or stemmy. This I don't like. I have often thought "bramble", only to have it finish more as gamey or unripe. When I get that first whiff, I worry. However, when it stays berry and ripe - it can be very nice. I remember a Hanna Bismarck can and a Guilliams cab that both went this way - the Hanna went berry and the Guilliams went harsh......
DBW | | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15713
| | 11/24/2006 7:10 PM |
| You say Brambley,
I say briery,
let's call the whole thing off.
Haven't you ever heard the song by Nat Cole "Brambling Rose"? It's about a white Zin. | | | |
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dbw4
Grape Puncher
Posts:902
| | 11/27/2006 3:21 PM |
| 
... for our next thread - should we do "stalky", "prickly", "burnt rubber".....
DBW | | | |
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