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ChangeMe
Grape Sorter
Posts:281
 | | 07/06/2003 4:41 PM |
| Back when I subscribed to the Spectator in the early 90's, a lot of the wine reviews would use this term to describe certain attributes to a wine. I never really understood exactly what the Sam Hill they were talking about. Did the wine have flavor profiles similar to eating a piece of steak gristle?
Now interestingly enough, I hardly ever see this term being used in tasting notes. Is the term glycerin now being used instead, or are they not related? Just a curious question as I've always wondered. | | | |
| Seaquam
Barrel Filler
Posts:1141
| | 07/06/2003 6:21 PM |
| "Fat" or "flabby" usually denotes a wine with low acidity. While wines of this sort might show well in the short term, they're usually not well-balanced and have very limited aging capabilities.
I suspect you don't read this descriptor so often any more because it's not that hard to acidify a wine that's deficient in acid. | | | |
| David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
Master Sommelier
Posts:15756
| | 07/06/2003 6:51 PM |
| from "Wine Lover's Companion" by Ron Herbst and Sharon Tyler Herbst ( must-have book IMO).
fat A positive descriptor sometimes used for wine that, although concentrated, rich, and high in glycerol, has low to average acidity. The impression on the palate is full and "fat". A wine with almost same qualities, but not in the same contration, might be referred to as "plump". If a wat wine lacks too much acidity it becomes insipid and is referred to as "flabby". A sweet wine that's fat can be overwhelmingly unctuos.
lean The opposite of "fleshy, the term describes a wine that is somewhat sparse in fruit. Some lean wines are also moderately astringent. Such characteristics, however, don't necessarily translate into an unenjoyable wine. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:11169
| | 07/06/2003 10:31 PM |
| | I have to agree with David. "Fat" has always been a positive descriptor. The definition he gave seems right on to me. | | | |
| Seaquam
Barrel Filler
Posts:1141
| | 07/07/2003 7:07 AM |
| Hmmm... I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as that.
I was a bit surprised at the definition that David provided because it began with the words "a positive descriptor..." While I don't mind drinking wines that can be described as fat (I have a friend who love to call big, fruit-forward wines "fat and slutty" just so he can hear himself use that phrase  ), I've never considered "fat" to be a particularly positive comment to make. Certainly, it suggests a rich mouth-feel, but fruit that isn't bouyed up by some acidity gets tiresome pretty quickly, IMO, particularly so in a white more than in a red wine. Add to that more limitation on ageability, and I just don't see "fat" as such a positive attribute.
I did a quick search to see whether I could find some other wine-related definitions for the term on-line, and found these:
FAT
Fills the mouth in a positive manner. The wine "feels" and tastes a little obvious and often lacks elegance but is prized by connoisseurs of sweet dessert wines. Not quite desirable in a late harvest Moselle Riesling, but appropriate in a classic Sauternes. Fatness/oiliness is determined by the naturally occurring glycerol - (a.k.a glycerin) - content in the wine.
--Wine Tasting Terminology
by Anthony Hawkins
Fat - Full-bodied, bold, ripe, rich, flavor laden, high alcohol wines low in acidity give a "fat" or fleshy impression on the palate.
--www.yourdictionary.com
Flat, fat, flabby
Critical term for a wine without sufficient acidity, therefore lacking "structure."
--Wine Lovers' Page, Wine Lexicon
FAT: Full-bodied, high alcohol wines low in acidity give a "fat" impression on the palate. Can be a plus with bold, ripe, rich flavors; can also suggest the wine's structure is suspect. Usually used as a negative connotation.
--West Coast Wine Net, Dictionary of Wine Terms
The definition David provided was also on-line, on the Epicurean website.
So it appears that the term is not universally embraced as either a negative or positive term. I'm certainly going to re-think how I use the term in tasting notes. Thank you, Nitro Vino, for posing the question; I've found it quite interesting to investigate this just a little bit.
Now, if you ever see a wine described as "PHAT", that would mean it's a mighty fine wine, and you should be buying it by the case. | | | |
| stemor
Collierville, TN
Wine Thief
Posts:2818
| | 07/07/2003 1:20 PM |
| Seaq,
Perhaps one could use the wordunctuous rather than fat. Parker has practically made this a household word.
1. Characterized by affected, exaggerated, or insincere earnestness: “the unctuous, complacent court composer who is consumed with envy and self-loathing” (Rhoda Koenig).
2. Having the quality or characteristics of oil or ointment; slippery.
3. Containing or composed of oil or fat.
4. Abundant in organic materials; soft and rich: unctuous soil.
Do you suppose that Parker was sitting around one night, tasting his 80th wine of the evening with some of his winemaking friends ... and money was wagered on whether Parker could actually get people to use an otherwise improbable word? "Hey, Bob, let's see if you can get your loyal followers to say ... uhhhh, hee hee heeeee ... "unctuous".
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Cheers, y'all | |
| TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 07/07/2003 4:11 PM |
| | I use fat as a positive and flabby as a negative. "Fat" is very close to "Rich" in my TCK wine dictionary. | | | |
| Seaquam
Barrel Filler
Posts:1141
| | 07/07/2003 5:16 PM |
| You may be on to something, stemor.
I find some of the wines that Parker describes as "unctuous" to be lacking in je ne sais quoi. In fact, I'm trying to get all my followers to use this latter term regularly when they critique wine.
Unfortunately, so far both of them have been very resistant to using it. | | | |
| Tom
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2384
| | 07/09/2003 8:28 PM |
| Fat: What one becomes when they drink too much Port.
Thus the word " Portly " .
Bad, bad, bad....   | | | |
| Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2067
| | 07/09/2003 11:02 PM |
| LOL!
Fat according to Parker in referance to the Rhone- "When the Rhone has an exceptionally hot year for its crop and the wines attain a super sort of maturity, they are often quite rich and concentrated, with low to average acidity. Often such wines are said to be fat, which is a prized commodity. If they become too fat , that is a flaw and they are then called flabby."
So I guess Fat= more balanced, Flabby= Unbalanced
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