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ChangeMeUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 4:09 AM  
After years of disappointments with many Italian wines, I've sort of given up on them. I could use a little help here. If you know, would you post the following information for each wine listed below:
1. The varietal(s) in the wine
2. Acidity relative to other reds
3. Richness
4. Typical alcohol (%)
5. Ability to age

The wines:

Brunello di Montalcino

Chianti

Amarone

Barbera

Barbaresco

Barolo

Montepulciano

Valpolicella

Thanks for your help.
futronicUser is Offline
Toronto, Canada
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01/17/2005 6:22 AM  
Quote:

After years of disappointments with many Italian wines, I've sort of given up on them. I could use a little help here. If you know, would you post the following information for each wine listed below:
1. The varietal(s) in the wine
2. Acidity relative to other reds
3. Richness
4. Typical alcohol (%)
5. Ability to age




The wines:

Brunello di Montalcino
1. 100% Sangiovese.
2. Good acidity, but usually quite balanced.
3. Usually medium-to-full bodied. "Richness" in a Cali Cab sense really depends more on modern-vs-traditional, use of barrique or botti, etc.
4. Usually in the 13-13.5% range.
5. Great aging potential in great years. Minimum 10 years from vintage for entering drinking window, has potential to go 20+, depending on producer.

Favourite producers: Fuligni, Costanti, Poggio Antico

Chianti
1. Minimum 75% Sangiovese. Allowed other varietals include: Canaiolo - up to 10%, Trebbiano Toscano or Malvasia del Chianti - up to 10%, other allowed varietals (i.e. Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot) - up to 10%.
2. Good acidity, can sometimes be out of balance if not handled properly. Has enough acidity to stand up to tomato based dishes.
3. Most Chianti can't really be described as "rich." Although there are some exceptions, Chianti is really a food wine that matches quite well to Tuscan cuisine.
4. 12.5-13.5%.
5. Most Chianti is meant to be consumed young, but certain producers in good vintages can make wines that will go 10 years easily. The best Chianti comes from the Chianti Classico region. Another personal favourite is Chianti Rufina.

Favourite producers: Fonterutoli, Felsina, Fontodi, Querceto.

Amarone
1. Usually consists of Corvina, Rondinella, and Molinara in the following ranges: 40-70%, 20-40%, and 5-25%, respectively.
2. Not overly acidic, often hidden behind the big structure and fruit. Enough to support the structure of the wine.
3. Quite rich, possibly one of the richest Italian wines that you'll find. This is due to the partial drying of the grapes on straw mats for 4-5 months after harvest before pressing. Fully fermented wines are Amarone della Valpolicella, whereas wines that have the fermentation halted during the process will be labeled as Recioto della Valpolicella. This sweet wine is similar is style to Amarone, but the sweetness comes from the residual sugar.
4. 14-16%, lower for Recioto (since not all the sugars are converted to alcohol).
5. Potential to age 20 years from great producers, the sweet spot for me in minimum 10 years from vintage from top labels in good vintages. I'm not a fan of Amarone with less than 6 years of age.

Favourite producers: Allegrini, Masi (Serego Alighieri label), Zenato, Michele Castellani (Campo Casalin in particular)

Barbera
1. 100% Barbera in Alba, 85-100% in Asti (up to 15% Fresia and/or Grignolino and/or Dolcetto).
2. Plenty of acidity; stands up well to tomato based dishes.
3. Generally not very rich, but some producers are producing excellent Barbera. Braida is considered one of the top producers of Barbera. They are based in Asti and make a few different labels, but I can't justify $65CAD for them.
4. 13-14%.
5. Most Barbera is meant to be consumed young, within 2-3 years from vintage, but some producers are putting together wines that will last 3-7 or more, as is the case with Braida.

Barbaresco
1. 100% Nebbiolo.
2. Good acidity, enough to support the fruit. Can be quite tannic at a young age, but is generally more approachable than Barolo.
3. Can range from an easy quaffing, simple wine to a quite rich, complex wine. Lots of different styles, ranging from fruit forward, barriqued wines to traditional, long-aging wines. There's everything in between too.
4. 13-14%.
5. Great aging potential. Can go 20+ years from a great vintage. Even in average vintages, wines can easily go 10-15 years. Minimum 10+ years for great wines from great producers.

Favourite producers: Produttori del Barbaresco (single vineyard Riservas, only made in good years. The 2001 normale is great too), Sottimano, Ceretto, Cantina del Pino (Ovello), Pio Cesare

Barolo
1. 100% Nebbiolo.
2. Good acidity, enough to support the fruit. Can be quite tannic at a young age, and needs time to settle down and show what Nebbiolo is all about.
3. Can range from an easy quaffing, simple wine to a quite rich, complex wine. Lots of different styles, ranging from fruit forward, barriqued wines to traditional, long-aging wines. There's everything in between too.
4. 13-14%.
5. Great aging potential. Can go 20, 30, 40+ years from a great vintage. Even in average vintages, wines can easily go 10-15 years. Minimum 10+ years for great wines from great producers, often longer.

Favourite producers: Ceretto, Aldo Conterno, Marchesi di Barolo, Pio Cesare, Borgogno, Poderi Colla.

Montepulciano
1. Not to be confused with Vino Nobile di Montepulciano (which is a Sangiovese-based wine), Montepulciano is really only grown in Abruzzo. It's minimum 85% Montepulciano, but other local varieties, sometimes Sangiovese, can be used up to 15%.
2. Great acidity, but can be overwhelmed if not handled appropriately with good vineyard management.
3. Not often very rich, but more medium-bodied and a pleasant drink. Some producers are taking this wine very seriously, such as Masciarelli and Valentini. Good luck finding their wines. Other good producers are Zaccagnini, Dino Illuminati (the Riparosso offers good value, with medium-body), and Terra d'Aligi (the Tatone is quite nice).
4. 12.5-14%
5. With the exception the big two (Masciarelli and Valentini), I wouldn't age many more than 5-7 years from vintage, with most meant to be drunk within 3-4 years.

Favourite producers: Illuminati, Terra d'Aligi. Citra Winery's 1999 Riserva Caroso was excellent.

Valpolicella
1. See section on Amarone.
2. Average acidity. Less than Chianti.
3. Often light in body, but some Ripasso wines (where the Valpolicella wine is passed over the must of Amarone to add complexity and body) can be excellent. The best example I know of is Zenato's Ripassa. Other top Valpolicella comes from Quintarelli and Dal Forno, whose wines put some other Amarone to shame. They cost a fortune though - between $80-100CAD.
4. 12.5-13.5%.
5. With the exception of Quintarelli and Dal Forno, I wouldn't age them all that long. They're meant to be drunk young. Ripasso wines can withstand some cellaring, but don't expect them to go 10 years.

Favourite producers: Mostly for Ripasso wines - Zenato, Castellani; Dal Forno is great if you want to pay for it.
BudmanUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 10:44 AM  
Futronic - great writeup. Your post probably belongs in one of the 'primers'.
futronicUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 1:38 PM  
Thanks, bud. I should probably expand on the writings, but at 1-something in the morning, I think that was quite verbose.
ChangeMeUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 1:56 PM  
Thanks so much, futronic. I'm on my way out but will print it this afternoon.
RothkoUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 2:39 PM  
What a great post!
shaferguy91User is Offline
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01/17/2005 3:33 PM  
Agreed- a great post. I'm printing it out to save for future reference.
Dick W.User is Offline
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01/17/2005 3:38 PM  
as usual fut, an excellent post on italians, which is why i listen to you and eno when it comes to them. the only additions really that one could add would be favourite producers, where more individual taste comes into play.
futronicUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 4:01 PM  
Quote:

the only additions really that one could add would be favourite producers, where more individual taste comes into play.




Agreed. I'll probably add some more recommended producers when I have a minute to sit down and think about things a little more. Maybe even break down some of the styles - modern, traditional, or middle-ground.
ChangeMeUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 4:03 PM  
Great post Fut. I assumed you would take the reins on this one.
Pool BoyUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 4:59 PM  
Quote:


Barbera
1. 100% Barbera in Alba, 85-100% in Asti (up to 15% Fresia and/or Grignolino and/or Dolcetto).
2. Plenty of acidity; stands up well to tomato based dishes.
3. Generally not very rich, but some producers are producing excellent Barbera. Braida is considered one of the top producers of Barbera. They are based in Asti and make a few different labels, but I can't justify $65CAD for them.
4. 13-14%.
5. Most Barbera is meant to be consumed young, within 2-3 years from vintage, but some producers are putting together wines that will last 3-7 or more, as is the case with Braida.

Barbaresco
1. 100% Nebbiolo.
2. Good acidity, enough to support the fruit. Can be quite tannic at a young age, but is generally more approachable than Barolo.
3. Can range from an easy quaffing, simple wine to a quite rich, complex wine. Lots of different styles, ranging from fruit forward, barriqued wines to traditional, long-aging wines. There's everything in between too.
4. 13-14%.
5. Great aging potential. Can go 20+ years from a great vintage. Even in average vintages, wines can easily go 10-15 years. Minimum 10+ years for great wines from great producers.

Favourite producers: Produttori del Barbaresco (single vineyard Riservas, only made in good years. The 2001 normale is great too), Sottimano, Ceretto, Cantina del Pino (Ovello), Pio Cesare

Barolo
1. 100% Nebbiolo.
2. Good acidity, enough to support the fruit. Can be quite tannic at a young age, and needs time to settle down and show what Nebbiolo is all about.
3. Can range from an easy quaffing, simple wine to a quite rich, complex wine. Lots of different styles, ranging from fruit forward, barriqued wines to traditional, long-aging wines. There's everything in between too.
4. 13-14%.
5. Great aging potential. Can go 20, 30, 40+ years from a great vintage. Even in average vintages, wines can easily go 10-15 years. Minimum 10+ years for great wines from great producers, often longer.

Favourite producers: Ceretto, Aldo Conterno, Marchesi di Barolo, Pio Cesare, Borgogno, Poderi Colla.





Futronic-- Thanks so much for a great reply to Board-o. I particularly was hoping someone would clarify the bits around the three 'B's I quoted from your post as these have always been a mystery for me personally. I particularly like the inclusion of your favorite producers. I'd be interested in having other, more experience, Italian wine lovers add their favorite producers (or confirm your selections) as well. Many thanks!!!

www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com
IllinicellarUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 5:12 PM  
Well organized question Board O. I wold love to see it expanded as suggested. Great job futronic and thanks for the detailed answers! Who needs a smart wine shop, I have Vinocellar!....ok, I wish I had a smart wine store AND VC but I'll take what I can get.
ChangeMeUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 7:13 PM  
Thanks again to futronic. I printed it out and will use it as a reference.
WinetexUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 7:22 PM  
A good question and a terrific answer. Way to go Futronic!

After much experimentation (read yech...) with different Italians I've finally locked in to what I like and what to buy. Italy is the fastest growing region in my cellar. After starting with three bottles Italy recently left Australia behind.
futronicUser is Offline
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01/17/2005 7:34 PM  
There are a ton of other great producers out there, but although I may own some of their wines, I haven't actually tasted them. Either than or I don't own and haven't tasted wines from them. For Barolo, this includes Roberto Voerzio, Paolo Scavino in the first group, Giacomo Conterno in the second. Etc, etc.
wineismylifeUser is Offline
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01/18/2005 12:53 AM  
Quote:

A good question and a terrific answer. Way to go Futronic!

After much experimentation (read yech...) with different Italians I've finally locked in to what I like and what to buy. Italy is the fastest growing region in my cellar. After starting with three bottles Italy recently left Australia behind.




Same here. Italy recently passed Australia in my cellar and when I receive my Premier Cru shipment later this month it will pass Spain for number 3 behind California and France. However, I anticipate that Spain will also continue to grow and a good pace as well...just not as quick as Italy.

Joe
-----
Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone.
Dick W.User is Offline
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01/18/2005 3:31 AM  
joe, italia recently passed US as numero uno, and france will overtake US as numero dos sometime this year. i just haven't been buying much US. wait, with loring, bressler and dain on the horizon, it may stay #2.

my database is at work, so tomorrow i'll list my favourite producers, some/most of which harmonise nicely with fut's list.
whinerUser is Offline
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01/18/2005 9:14 AM  
Great reply, futronic!

I can only really add my personal favorite producers, which differs from futs, probably primarily only because we have tried different wines...

Brunello favorite producers: Ciacci Piccolomini, Ucelliera, Sassetti, Siro Pacenti
side note: Ciacci Piccolomini makes an awesome Syrah called Fabius and a very good Cab-blend called Ateo.

Chianti favorite producers: San Giusto a Retenanno, Fontodi.
side note: San Giusto a Retenanno makes two super-tuscans: a very good Merlot called "Ricolma" and a sometimes outstanding Sangiovese called "Percarlo"

Amarone favorite producers: Quintarelli, Tomasso Bussola, Allegrini, Zenato, Masi (Serego Alighieri label)
side note #1: Dal Forno is supposedly sublime but I've not tried
side note #2: I've seen many Amarone at or slightly above the 16% Alcohol mark
side note #3: For an Amarone-like experience, Ripassas are excellent and a fraction of the cost

Barbera favorite producers: Braida (but futronic is right, they are too expensive for what they are) La Spinetta, Sandrone, Clerico.
side note: I love Barbera but it is important to note two different styles. Braida (esp Ai Suma), La Spinetta, Sandrone and Clerico are all made in a barrique-aged, more rich, style. These wines are sometimes, contrary to popular opinion, built to age a few years (eg. 1997 Braida Ai Suma). There are some terrific Barberas for $12 (eg. Icardi) that are made in a fruitier, more easy-to-understand style.

Barbaresco favorite producers: La Spinetta, Albino Rocca

Barolo favorite producers: La Spinetta, Sandrone, Clerico, Pira, Seghesio
side note: with lots of decanting, the 2000 Barolo and Barbaresco are drinking surprisingly well right now, imo

Montepulciano question/note: While futronic is right, I have been led to believe that the Montepulciano grape is actually a strain of the Sangiovese grape.

a

I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
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ChangeMeUser is Offline
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01/18/2005 1:55 PM  
Someone who knows for sure will post I am sure, but the Vino Nobile de Montepulciano is a sangiovese clone, and I always thought, consistent with Fut's post, that Montepulciano d'Abruzzo is not primarily sangiovese (although some may be added).

By the way, we just had the 2001 Ciacci Piccolomini Rosso di Montepulciano and it was drinking well and pretty full bodied showing darker fruits and is a nice substitute while we are waiting for the 97 and 99 Brunellos to come around.
futronicUser is Offline
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01/18/2005 2:28 PM  
Montepulciano is a distinct varietal. I will do some research tonight and see if there is some relation to Sangiovese, but it's pretty unlikely.

Whiner, with respect to Braida, I visited the winery in May and tasted pretty much their entire lineup of wines. While they are known for their Barbera and Barbera blends, I thought their best wine was a delicious Moscato d'Asti. If you search the Italian TNs forum for Braida, you can read them.

It was one of the most disappointing tours of the trip, since the owner was very combatant. She didn't want to answer questions with respect to their use of barrique (it's all the use, but I was asking about duration, types of oak, etc) with their different wines. What pushed me over the edge was when she pawned us off on to someone else before our tasting was over. Not impressed.

As if I needed one more reason to not spend $65CAD on a bottle of Barbera.
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