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Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
 | | 02/11/2003 5:57 PM |
| Ok...for those of us that are COMPLETELY ignorant when it comes to French wine...could someone (in layman terms) explain the differences between these three. I mean I know the different regions, etc. But what varietals do these wines tend to be? I know enough about Bordeaux to know that it is typically Cab and Merlot, but that is about the extent of my knowledge...
Thanks! | | | |
| love_cab_chard
Master of Wine
Posts:12386
| | 02/11/2003 6:07 PM |
| | Thank you Brent for bringing this up. The responses interest me very much also. | | | |
| Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
| | 02/11/2003 6:09 PM |
| | LCC: No problem. I purchase EXCLUSIVELY California wine and I want to branch out and start looking at French wine but I don't know enough about it to even know where to start. | | | |
| TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts:1279
| | 02/11/2003 6:23 PM |
| Here it goes. I apologize for spelling and grammer 
There are five grapes allowed in bordeaux - Cab, Merlot, Cab Franc, Petite Verdot, and Malbec. Bordeaux is split into two basic regions wich are seperated by the Girond (sp) river, they are refered to as the left and right bank. The left bank is known for it's cabs grown in the famouse communes of St Estephe, St Julien, Pauliac, and Margaux which make up the Medoc Region. Graves is the other Left bank region.
The right bank is more fit for growing Merlot and is made up of the regions of St Emilion and Pomerol.
Burgundy is made up from the region of Chablis, Cote d'Or (which in turn is made up by the Cote d' Nuites and Cote d'Beaune), Chalonaise, The Macon, and finnaly Beaujolaise. The mane grapes used in Burgundy are Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. Each region is unique. Chablis makes flinty and steely chardonnay. Cote d'Or Makes the "classic" red and white Burgundies. Chalonaise makes less interesting versions of the Cote d'Or wines (though often a good cheap alternative). Macon makes light bodied fruity Chardonanny that is rarely oaked. Finnally, Beajolaise is made from the Gammay grape and is a bistro wine that is seldom profound but often fun and enjoyable. There is also a small ammount of a wine called Bouzeron made in burgundy from the Aligote grape but it's insignicant in my opinion. Burgundy is a complex region that has a structural hierarchy like no other place in the world. Wine can be labeled Burgundy - or by a region such as Cote d' Nuits - or by a village such as Pommard and right down to a specific vinyard such as Batard Montrachet. Certain vinyards carry the designation of premier or grand cru and they represent wines grown in the most prestigious ground in Burgundy. As the AOC becomes more specific the wine is supposed to pick up a more define charecter of the Terroir from which it came and be of a higher quality, this is not always the case.
The Rhone is made up of the North and South Region and is located on the Rhone river. The North is Dominated by the Syrah grape and the most famouse wine come from Hermitage and Cote Rotie. They also make Condrieu which is a viognier based wine. The south is a hotter rockier climate and is home to some of the most energetic Grenache based wines in the world - the most historic of which is Chateauneuf du Pape which can have as many as 13 diffrent grapes in the blend, and to a lesser extent Gigondas. Many consider these Southern Rhone wines to be fantastic values however prices have been creeping over the last few years.
TCK |
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| Blair Ridley
Wine Labeler
Posts:3980
| | 02/11/2003 6:28 PM |
| Excellent job, TCK.
Short, accurate, and directly to the point. Bravo. | | | |
| Eric White
San Ramon, CA
Advanced Sommelier
Posts:9147
| | 02/11/2003 6:28 PM |
| Whew, that's a big question!
Bordeaux - located in on the Southwest coastal region of France, five permitted red grape varieties:- Cabernet
- Merlot
- Cabernet Franc
- Petite Verdot
- Malbec
Right bank is predominately Merlot, Left bank is predominately Cab, but virtually all are blends, but not necessarily of all five types.
Bordeaux is also notable for dry and sweet (Sauternes) whites from Semillon and Sauvignon Blanc.
Rhone
Northern Rhone reds are Syrah (think Cote-Rotie, Hermatage, St. Joseph). Northern Rhone whites are Viognier (think Condrieu).
Southern Rhone is all about blends - 13 permitted grape varieties, the dominate being Grenache, followed by Syrah. Styles range from light every day wines (many Cote du Rhones) to heavy, deep brooding wines (think Chateuneuf du Papes), to those in between (think Crozes Hermitage, Gigondas).
Burgundy
Ranging from Chablis in the North to Beaujolais (yes, Beaujolais is considered part of Burgundy). - Chablis - Chardonnay, nothing but. Ranging in style, but generally steely, minerally whites
- Cote d'Or - Chardonnay for white wines (generally richer, rounder wines than Chablis) and some Aligote (very dry white). For reds, only Pinot Noir. Region is split into the Cotes de Nuit (mostly red) and the Cotes de Beaune (mostly white).
- Macon - Some real value wines (and some real plonk) from the same grapes as the Cote d'Or
- Beaujolais - Gamay, wines from the 5 AOC regions can be wonderful and even ageable. Most know for the marketing genius known as beaujolais nouveau, wine that is released within weeks of fermentation being completed.
Lots of generalizations here, but it's a start. | | | |
| Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
| | 02/11/2003 6:30 PM |
| | TCK and Eric: WOW!!! Did you guys swap notes or something??? This is GREAT!!! Thanks!!! | | | |
| JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts:8568
| | 02/11/2003 6:31 PM |
| Red Burgundy means Pinot Noir (technically it can include Gamay but when people say Red Burgundy they mean Pinot Noir). if you see Bourgogne and all appellations above that minimal designation (AOC Villages, premier Cru, Grand Cru) and the wine is red then it is Pinot Noir. Bourgogne Pas Tout Grains is a Pinot Noir Gamay blend.
White Burgundy means Chardonnay. (It can also mean Aligote (Bouzeron AOC) or Pinot Blanc/Gris or Melon but when people say White Burgundy they mean Chardonnay).
Bordeaux encompasses five red varietals - Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Malbec, Petit Verdot, and Cabernet Franc. Red Bordeaux is usually a blend of those varietals. Left Bank Bordeaux (Pauilliac, Margaux, St. Estephe, St. Julien etc) is usually Cabernet Sauvignon dominated. Right Bank Bordeaux (St. Emilion, Pomerol, St Emilion satellites) are usually Merlot dominated. There are of course exceptions to these geenral rules.
White Bordeaux has three white varietals - Sauvignon Blanc, Semillion, and Muscadelle. White Bordeaux can be dry (Graves, Pessac-Leognan etc) or it can be sweet (Sauternes, Barsac).
The Rhone Valley has considerably more varietals then Bordeaux and Burgundy. Still it can be distilled down to a few major varieties. Northern Rhone Valley (Cote Rotie, Hermitage, Cornas, Crozes-Hermitgae etc) red wines are made of Syrah. In Cote Rotie they can blend in up to 20% of the white grape Viognier. White Northern Rhone wines (Chateau Grillet, Condrieu) are made of Viognier. Other white Northern Rhones (Hermiatge, Crozes, St. Peray) are made of Roussane and Marsanne. St. Peray makes really poor sparkling wine as well.
Southern Rhone Valley Reds (Gigondas, Chateauneuf du Pape, Vacqueyras) are primarily made of Grenache with Syrah, Mourvedre, Cinsault, and other minor league varietals playing a supporting role. Southern Rhone Valley whites (CdP) are made of Roussane, Marsanne, and other minor varietals. Cotes du Rhone whites sometimezs have Viognier in them as well. | | | |
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| | 02/11/2003 7:00 PM |
| | I have a way of keeping straight Burgundy from Bordeaux. The second letter of Burgundy is u, like in pure -- pure Pinot, pure Chardonnay. Bordeaux is usually a blend. | | | |
| Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
| | 02/11/2003 7:03 PM |
| A follow-up question:
Are the areas contained within the various main regions similar to the way it is established here in the states?
For example: If I buy a 1999 VinoCellar Oakville Cabernet Sauvignon, I know that VinoCellar is the producer, Oakville is the appellation and Cabernet is the varietal. If I buy a 1999 St. Emillion VinoCellar Bordeaux am I right in assuming that St. Emillion is the appellation, VinoCellar is the producer and the varietal is a Bordeaux (one of the five main Bordeaux grapes?)
And if so, how do I know what the blend is, if it is a blend or 100% one or the other? | | | |
| Blair Ridley
Wine Labeler
Posts:3980
| | 02/11/2003 7:07 PM |
| Brent -
Great questions.
The labeling situation throughout Europe is not very clear - to put it simply. I've always found Bordeaux a bit easier since most of the producers are named Chateau ________. For Bordeaux, when you see the right bank designation (St. Emilion or Pomerol), it's a safe bet that the wine has a high percentage of Merlot (with others blended in). The left bank properties typically have a high percentage of Cab Sauv with others blended in for support. There are exceptions of course.
The blend is usually not listed on the bottle - so research needs to be done to find the exact amounts of each. Parker usually puts it in the WA, sometimes WS will publish it, and lastly, you can ask us here at VC! We'll find out for you!
I'm going to leave the label questions for Burgundy and Rhone to others MUCH more qualified than I. | | | |
| Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
| | 02/11/2003 7:10 PM |
| | Just a quick note of THANKS to everyone who has responded to this question so far...What an education I am getting today!!! It's posts like this with replies like these that make this an exciting and educational hobby!!! | | | |
| skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5452
| | 02/11/2003 7:46 PM |
| Re: Bordeaux:
Many of the Right Bank wines from St. Emilion have a fairly large percentage of Cabernet Franc in them to go along with the Merlot (Cheval Blanc is a good example).
I think for those of us from the States Bordeaux is easier to figure out. The Estates are much larger and the labeling is fairly easy to understand. The main difference is things are not labeled by grape varietal (this is true throughout most of Europe). Many Burgundy Estates produce many wines in very small quantities (for instance DRC produces 7 different wines, all of Grand Cru status and they aren't a very large producer, just a very important one).
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| Wineaux
New Orleans, LA
Barrel Filler
Posts:1413
| | JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts:8568
| | 02/11/2003 8:55 PM |
| A typical Burgundy label reads like "Domaine Robert Chevillion Nuits-St-Georges Les Cailles Premier Cru". Domaine Robert Chevillion is the producer. Nuits St Georges is the village where the vineyard is located (the label does not tell you whether the wines is from the Cotes de Nuits or the Cotes de Beaune you just have to know that Nuits St. Georges is in the Cotes de Nuits. if you don't know and have to guess then if the wine is white it is from the Cotes de Beaune and if it is red then it is Cote de Nuits - that guess gives you the best chance of being right) Les Cailles Premier Crus is the appelation. The appelalation in this case tells you two things - the name of the vineyard and the fact that the vineyard is entitled to be called a Premier Cru (In descending order of quality Grand Cru, Premier Cru, Villages, Bourgogne, Bourgogne Pas Tout Grains). If a label says for instance Gevrey Chambertin Clos Les Justice Gevrey Chambertin AOC then that tells you the name of the vineyard but the vineyard is not a Premier Cru it is merely a lieux-dit (place name) for a specific vineyard that is only entitled to villages status.
A label for a Grand Cru Vineyard does not tell you the name of the Villages where the Grand Cru is located - you just have to know that (some Grand Crus are in more than one villages anyway). Thus a typical Grnad Cru label reads like this "Domaines Leroy Chambertin Grand Cru" That means Domaines Leroy is the producer and the vineyard Chambertin is entitled to be designated as a grand cru (just because something is entitled to be called grand cru does not stop a producer from declassifying the wine down to a lesser appellation. This is only done when the quality of the wine in the producer's opinion is not of grand cru quality). Grand Cru vineyards are so famous that villages that contain the Grand Cru have appended the name to the name of the villages. Thus the village of Gevrey call itself Gevrey-Chambertin because that is where Chambertin is located. Montrachet Grand Cru is so famous that two villages have appended the name to the villages (Chassagne- Montrachet and Puligny-Montrachet) | | | |
| Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
| | 02/11/2003 9:06 PM |
| | JonesWineNo1: Ok...now my head is spinning and about to pop. Could you define Premier Cru and Grand Cru? I think I am getting the gist of things... | | | |
| DukeRiley
McMinnville, OR
Barrel Racker
Posts:1990
| | 02/11/2003 9:11 PM |
| | Just wait. Tomorrow we'll talk about Alsace and the Loire..... Next up, Germany! | |
Heater Allen Brewing
www.heaterallen.com | |
| Brent Null
Roseville, CA
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2193
| | 02/11/2003 9:13 PM |
| *POP*  | | | |
| jaimetown
DC area
Wine Bottler
Posts:3430
| | 02/11/2003 9:37 PM |
| Brent, if you want to have money left over for retirement... avoid burgundy like the plague! | | | |
| skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts:5452
| | 02/11/2003 10:00 PM |
| That's for sure Jamietown. Burgundy sure is tasty in great years though. Nothing can beat it a great Grand Cru Burgundy.
Of course there is always "Hearty Burgundy" | | | |
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