NorCalVinoLover
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2202
 | | 05/21/2004 5:48 PM |
| With my new cellar and wireless hygrometer I've been able to track the cellar temperature and humidity over the past month. The temperature is maintained at ~58 deg. while the humidty has been staying in the high 40's. From what I've read, humidity should be carefully balanced within a range of 50-70%. So the question is, How to I increase the humidity in my cellar?
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Rothko
Palm Beach
Wine Thief
Posts:2870
| | 05/21/2004 5:54 PM |
| | Well, I would try the simple method first of placing a small cup or lid filled with water in the cellar, and monitor the humidity level thereafter. Usually that works fine. | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 05/21/2004 8:47 PM |
| | A wick like a washcloth hanging halfway in the cup helps a lot also. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 05/21/2004 11:14 PM |
| mine stays pretty steady around 62-68%.
the wick idea sounds pretty good though. | | | |
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wineismylife
Arlington, TX
Master of Wine
Posts:12246
| | 05/22/2004 1:40 AM |
| | Tony, do you attribute the humdity level to the cooling unit, the fact it is in the basement or the climate in your area? | |
Joe
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Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone. | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 05/22/2004 2:20 AM |
| all 3 i guess. the cooling unit will not remove moisture until it hits a certain level which i believe is 75%. being in the basement and being in pgh, which is natually moist from all the rivers, i think helps out a great bit. i have noticeed that in the winter sometime it dips down to 62%, but i can live with that. right now, imo, i have perfect cellaring conditions. 49-53 degrees (depending on cellar heighth placement) and 62%-68% humidity, just perfect for longterm storage if one was looking to store some nice bordeaux  | | | |
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Budman
Master of Wine
Posts:11874
| | 05/22/2004 6:22 PM |
| | I keep a pail of water on the floor of my cellar, and the humidity stays between 61-64%. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
| | 05/22/2004 8:32 PM |
| bud, i thought that was the downstairs bathroom  i'm sorry if the water is the wrong color   | | | |
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wineismylife
Arlington, TX
Master of Wine
Posts:12246
| | 05/22/2004 8:59 PM |
| LOL! That is a good one.
I'll have to remember that Bud since I'll have the same basic setup as you, just more area. | |
Joe
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Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone. | |
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Budman
Master of Wine
Posts:11874
| | 05/23/2004 3:18 AM |
| AI... Well, that might explain the excess acidity!  | | | |
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ChangeMe
Master of Wine
Posts:12891
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Rothko
Palm Beach
Wine Thief
Posts:2870
| | 05/23/2004 4:40 PM |
| | LOL!!! | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Puncher
Posts:986
| | 05/24/2004 4:23 PM |
| | I have a bucket of water with two sponges floating in it. Keeps my humidity around 60% plus or minus 2%. | | | |
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NorCalVinoLover
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2202
| | 05/25/2004 7:28 PM |
| A bucket with a couple of sponges floating in it sounds perfect for my application. I can't see the bucket with a rag hanging out thing. Won't the rag soak up the water and then drip water on the floor of the cellar?
Thanks for the suggestions.
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 05/25/2004 8:17 PM |
| Not if done right. I just have a bit of water in a shallow bowl, enough to keep the rag hydrated.
The end of the rag barely fits over the edge of the bowl. Most of the rag is out of the bowl. By the time the water creeps to the end of the rag, it is exposed to enough atmosphere to not have' enough moisture left to drip.
I actually do this in my cellar unit, never had a problem with dripping. | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2397
| | 05/26/2004 3:54 PM |
| | Related discussionhere | | | |
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Robert Prosperino
Brewster, NY
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2483
| | 05/26/2004 5:15 PM |
| I thought theMatt Kramer Article referenced on the WS thread was interesting enough that I should link it here as well. I know it is 9 years old, but it seemed relevant.
How about putting a humidifier in the room? Some of the newhumidifiers have digital humidistats. | | | |
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Dr_Tannin
Barrel Sampler
Posts:2498
| | 05/27/2004 7:22 PM |
| With all the posters, I am surprised no one gave the right answer. Didn't anyone take physics in school?
Humidity is overblown as having real relevance to keeping wines well while cellaring. Take the ridiculous. Some delicious port wines have been found under miles of ocean in Spanish wrecks from centuries ago. Conversely, even 30% humidity won't fray a cork on its' side imbibed wine 100% fluid! The corked bottle of wine doesn't evaporate at 30% humidity! If that were the case, then why do you store milk, soda, and juice in your refigerator? And upright at that!
Only arid desert like regions even get to 20-30% humidity. When its' pouring it still can be only 90% humidity.
[But, if you cared, first of all, cooler air by definition is dryer, so temporarily opening the cellar to room temperature will increase the humidity. Around here it can go to 70% in 10 minutes. A food refrigerator that cools to 35o is arid compared to a wine cellar at 60o.
Second, for the OBS, small cups of water are sufficient, but should be watched since water will evaporate and fungus will grow in the cup. Some cellars suggest pouring a layer of water at the bottom but I keep bottles there and don't want fungus growing on my labels of bathing wine.
Rather, I prefer to bathe and then dry off...not my wine.]
Frankly, I would remove the humdity dial from your cellar and not think about it again. | | | |
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Sacred Cow
Wine Thief
Posts:2764
| | 05/27/2004 8:27 PM |
| The corked bottle of wine will not evaporate, that is true. However, the cork itself will dry out, shrink, and expose the wine to air. Yes, this really does happen.
I hope VV will read this thread, and comment, either on the boards or through PM. I would like him to share his anecdotal evidence, based on his father's cellar of '82 Bordeaux. It has not been a pretty sight.
Of course, I am not sure of the humidity levels of a desert or anywhere else. Our climate in Colorado is considered semi-arid. And yet, we have a whole-house humidifier, just to try to raise the humidity level in the house to 35%. Year round.
Mike | | | |
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Sacred Cow
Wine Thief
Posts:2764
| | 05/28/2004 3:22 PM |
| This from an email I received from VV. The comments below are complete and unedited.
"With all due respecto Dr T, there are times when humidity is crucial, and Mike, I know that you know that too. My dad's 82 Cheval Blanc that I opened at Napstravaganza was a victim to lack of humidity (many witnesses to this). The cork was very hard and easily slid out of the bottle, to reveal an oxidized wine. If one lives in an arid area, corks *CAN AND DO* dry out, resulting in seepage of wine out and oxygen in. That is simple physics. Colorado is certainly NOT a desert region, yet I've witnessed tens out thousands of dollars of old Napa Cabernets and First Growths become decorations due to dried corks."
Yes, I have witnessed this also. To me, it is not a question of whether or not the wine will evaporate. The humidity is needed (and added in Colorado) as a way to keep the cork moist, to avoid shrinkage leading to oxidation. Once air is allowed in, the wine will evaporate sooner. But it is the oxidation effect that needs to be prevented, moreso than avoiding evaporation.
I agree with VV that Colorado is not a desert region, but it sure is close. I believe I read that a desert is defined as an area with 12 inches or less of moisture per year. The Denver area averages just over 15 inches, so we are certainly close (if that is the correct level). And it is why we humidify.
VV's father happened to be in Bordeaux when the 82s were being released. He has told me that he was not really into wine at the time, but became a wino on the trip. He purchased many cases of the 82s direct from the chateaux. Many of them he did not touch over the years, and he has just begun sampling them over the last few years. The 82 Cheval Blanc is just one example of the condition of the wines. Many (most?) of the others have been the same. All of the bottles were stored on their sides and temp controlled, but no humidity added to the cellar. It is definitely enough to make me cry.
For some of you who live in humid areas, the humidity of your cellar may not be a big concern. But if you do not know the humidity levels, you really don't know if you have a problem or not. So I think people should at least monitor them, and take corrective action when you think it is required.
Mike | | | |
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