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Cabs with Carl (Steefel), Pride, Pride, Pride, and Suduiraut
Last Post 02-02-2006 03:39 AM byGATC. 11 Replies.
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Eric White  Send Private Message
San Ramon, CA
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01-29-2006 11:25 PM  
I was fortunate to be invited to a small, but terrific offline last night hosted by Carl Steefel. We knew the theme was to be “2003 Cabernet”, but that is all we were given. The wines were served double blind to all except Carl, for whom they were single blind. I’ll let Carl explain (or not) how this tasting came about.

We started with the 2000 William Fevre Chablis, Les Clos, which was marvelous, steely, minerally, everything a good Chablis should be.

Wine #1:
Nice nose, but fairly reticent, with an interesting spice component. In the mouth the wine shows a hollow mid-palate, and extremely tannic – the tannins are astringent, drying, and unforgiving, and the wine seems taut and constrictive, turning slightly vegetal on the finish. 85 points.
-->2003 Ramey Jerico Canyon Cabernet Sauvignon

Wine #2:
Good nose, fairly dense with aromas of cassis and bright spice notes along with some vanilla. Moderate structure, well balanced, a good wine. 88 points, and my #2 of the flight.
-->2003 Chateau St. Jean Cabernet Sauvignon

Wine #3:
Very vegetal on the nose, with green bell pepper notes that I just can’t get past. Medium-to-light bodied, with moderate tannins and little fruit, there is little to like about this wine. 80 points. My least favorite of the flight.
-->2003 Philip Tongi Cabernet Sauvignon

Wine #4:
Decent Cabernet nose, with notes of cassis and blackberries, medium body, good acidity, very tannic, and the tannins are slightly drying. Plenty of oak on this wine. 86 points, my #3 of the lineup.
-->2003 Beau Vigne Cabernet Sauvignon

Wine #5:
Dense nose showing good plumy fruit, cassis, and chocolate. Quite rich and full on the palate, clearly the best nose of the lineup. On the palate the wine shows some nice complexity, firm tannins, good balance. Quite nice. 90 points, my #1 wine of the flight.
-->2003 Pride Mountain Cabernet Sauvignon

Wine #6:
Ugh, a very herbaceous wine on both the nose and the palate, with green vegetal notes. Medium body, tannic, not at all pleasant. 82 points.
-->2003 Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon

After the formal flight, and with dinner we enjoyed single blind the 2001, 2002, and 2003 Pride Mountain Cabernet. At this point I stopped taking notes, but I correctly identified each, with the 2002 being my favorite showing what I consider the typical forwardness of the vintage. The 2001 was quite good also, but seemed closed down – I wouldn’t touch this for several more years. The 2003 was consistent with my earlier impression.

We then moved on to the 2001 Pride Mountain Merlot, Vintner’s Select. This was my favorite red wine of the night, with a wealth of sweet fruit, extremely approachable palate, terrific structure – just delicious.

Finally, we concluded the night with the 2001 Château Suduiraut, my WOTN by a landslide. A wine one can be happy just smelling all evening, amazing complexity, wonderful floral, honey, and summer fruits. Lush and impeccably balanced on the palate, a stunning, world-class wine.

Thanks Carl and Julie for hosting a terrific evening!
2008: the end of an error
Paul_H  Send Private Message
San Francisco
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01-30-2006 12:52 AM  
Eric and I were pretty much in agreement on these wines. Perhaps my #2 & #3 wines in the blind flight would have been switched with his, but other than that, my relative rankings are the same.

This was an interesting tasting because a lot of the wines in the big blind flight either exhibited gross defects, or were just mediocre. It was a lot of work wading through the tasting. I'd say I've learned that 2003 is not a great year for California Cabernets.

It is fun to point out that RMP gave the Mondavi 90 pts, the Togni 95 pts, and the Pride 88 pts. I did not rush to the computer to search on winesearcher.com after this tasting. I'm leaving this for the rest of you!

The Château Suduiraut was beyond the far side of simply amazing, as was the Mousse au Chocolat, which helped prove that sauternes *IS* a food-friendly wine.

I also would like to express my gratitued for having been invited and being able to experience the really great hospitaliy graciously offered by Carl and Julie.
http://www.sweetandsourspectator.org
ItalianWino  Send Private Message
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01-30-2006 12:53 AM  
That '01 Suduiraut is one of my top 3 sauternes from the famed '01 vintage. I think this wine will be unreal 20yrs from now. I have had it twice thus far and I agree with the smell of the wine......it just keeps opening and blossoming. I have yet to try the d'Yquem but my other 2 favorites are Riuessec and La tour Blanche.

IW
Randy Wigginton  Send Private Message
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01-31-2006 03:38 PM  
There is a major disconnect between Parker's ratings on Togni and how the wine delivers. Every Togni I've had has been very vegetal -- it is almost like his winemaking style is stuck in the early 80s. This is a wine I've decided to let other people collect
love_cab_chard  Send Private Message
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01-31-2006 05:12 PM  
It is my experience & some others that Tognis need a lot of time. Togni, unlike some others (i.e. Montelena), just does not show well early. I had the 92, it was excellent. I had the 97, it needed about 3+ hours to get going, & it was excellent.

Perhaps, that's the case...

P.S.: Merus, for example, states in their mailers: if you open early, don't come to us complaining about the wine (...or something to that effect).

Perhaps judging a 2 year Togni is not a fair call. I don't know, I've never had one this young.

I noticed that Bressler had the 91 a few weeks ago, & he said it was excellent & hitting its prime now.
Eric White  Send Private Message
San Ramon, CA
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01-31-2006 05:46 PM  
I obviously have no problem with the concept of wines benifiting from age, but it is difficult to imagine age removing the extremely prominent green bell pepper notes that this wine displays at present.
2008: the end of an error
Winegeek  Send Private Message
San Francisco
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01-31-2006 06:02 PM  
Quote:

it is difficult to imagine age removing the extremely prominent green bell pepper notes that this wine displays at present.




You're absolutely right, it never goes away completely. As the bottle bouquet develops over time it can hide some of the green, but having had at least a dozen older Togni cabs I can assure you that the green streak is always there.

Richard
David Walker  Send Private Message
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01-31-2006 06:43 PM  
Richard -

What's the oldest Togni you've had? I had '90, '92, and '93 (I think) about a year ago they all tasted like it had just been bottled. Based on that tasting, I think the Tognis are 25-30 year wines, easily. Same with the Dunn HM's I've had.
love_cab_chard  Send Private Message
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01-31-2006 06:49 PM  
Yep, I forgot to mention that the 92 we had, the last glass was the best.
Winegeek  Send Private Message
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01-31-2006 10:56 PM  
Quote:

What's the oldest Togni you've had? I had '90, '92, and '93 (I think) about a year ago they all tasted like it had just been bottled. Based on that tasting, I think the Tognis are 25-30 year wines, easily.




Sorry, I should have more specific. The "older" Togni wines I've drunk more than once have been the 1984, 1986, 1987 and 1988.

Two points to put things in perspective:

1. I've met Phillip several times and think he's a piece of work but basically a good guy. I loved some of the wines he made years ago at Chappellet and Cuvaison and have regularly sold the Phillip Togni wines in my shop. No axe to grind here.

2. Unlike Parker, I don't place much value on a wine being able to live 20+ years. (This is even truer as I've gotten older!) When he says things like that I just take it to mean that the wine is horrifically tannic and that it won't taste good any time soon.

My point is simply that the rootstock/clone/soil combination in his vineyard on Spring Mountain results in wines with a green streak. Different people have different ways of describing it but the one common descriptor is "green". (They're not the only cab producer to be in this boat - Groth is another obvious example.) Age it all you want, the green streak is still going to be there.

Richard
David Walker  Send Private Message
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02-01-2006 12:41 AM  
Quote:

Unlike Parker, I don't place much value on a wine being able to live 20+ years. (This is even truer as I've gotten older!) When he says things like that I just take it to mean that the wine is horrifically tannic and that it won't taste good any time soon.




My interpertation of a "20-year" wine is exactly the same as yours, related to wines like Togni and Dunn. However, I do think there are many wines out there that will last 20 years or longer than do drink well young.

That being said, I have very little Togni in my cellar for that reason - I sometimes like to drink and enjoy a "20 year" wine young. I don't think this is possible with his wines.
GATC  Send Private Message
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02-02-2006 03:39 AM  
This is the reason that I didn't renew my WA subscription. There are a lot of wines that show well young AND age pretty well for 5-10 years, but Parker tends to rate them lower than the wines that are WOW at bottling then go sleep and never come out or wines like Togni that may or may not be great in 20-25 years. I still have 4-5 bottles of the 70 Mayacamas left that the "Parker of the 70's" (was it Robert Finnigan?) raved about. I drink a bottle every 5 years and they are always 10+ years from being ready.

I just buy the CA cabs that I like and rely on his ratings for Bordeaux only. If I don't like the wines 10-30 years from now, at least there will be a secondary market.
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