Leonard Maran 
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 415
 | | 02-07-2004 05:10 AM |
| This isn't news to many but in the most recent WA Parker stated, more or less,
that Zinfandel could be enormously satisfying but never great because the varietal
is not noble. I assumed by this he was referring to vitis vinifera and lineage. But
yesterday at a wine shop in town this fellow told me that the only truly noble grape
varieties were from Germany. This is not an idle question for me because I quite enjoy
Zinfandel and I am curious as to whether the Parker position (whether or not one happens to like Zin)
is a logical and coherent one. | | |
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Randy Sloan
St. Helena
Wine Drinker
Posts: 4017
| | 02-08-2004 03:37 AM |
| Don't know what RMP means, but Zinfandel IS vitis vinifera. | | Randy Sloan
Match Vineyards | |
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kpak
Alaska
Wine Bottler
Posts: 3134
| | 02-08-2004 08:44 AM |
| Primitivo is an ancient vine.
What does it take to qualify as "vinifera"? | | | In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is...
.ps - friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon. | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2397
| | 02-08-2004 06:24 PM |
| Quote:
Primitivo is an ancient vine.
What does it take to qualify as "vinifera"?
Vitas Vinifera is a species. It is used in almost all the worlds fine wine varietals. Another species is Vitis labrusca ( Concord grape ). I don't believe I have ever tasted a wine other than one made from Vitis vinifera spicies.
All "noble" grape varieties are Vitis vinifera
Not all Vitas vinifera are "noble"
One list of "noble" grapes I have seen is
Chardonnay
Cabernet Sauvignon
Syrah
Chenin Blanc
Nebbiolo
Sangiovese
Riesling
I am not sure, but I believe this is a subjective list.
There are others on the board that I am hope will fill us in better. I especially would like to hear tlily talk about grape species | | | |
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Leonard Maran
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 415
| | 02-08-2004 09:06 PM |
| Hang on Ormbee,
What about Pinot Noir? | | | |
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Carl
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 462
| | 02-08-2004 09:37 PM |
| Oxford companion to wine has:
"Noble:
Occasional synonym for Pinot vines."
Wine Lover's Companion Dictionary has:
"Noble:
A winetasting term used to describe a superior wine of remarkable character and great breed. The word noble may also be used to describe an eminent vineyard or grape variety known for producing superlative wines. "
To my mind, the most noble grapes are Cab Sauv, Riesling, Pinot Noir, Chardonnay and Merlot. The great Italian and Spanish grapes, Sangiovese, Nebiollo and Tempranillo, are too local to be noble? | | | |
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ormbee
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2397
| | 02-09-2004 06:53 AM |
| Not disagreeing with either of you, as I said, this is one list I saw, and I believe it was subjective. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts: 44
| | 02-16-2005 07:53 PM |
| In Alsace, France, there are four noble grapes: Muscat, Gewürztraminer, Riesling and Pinot gris.
They are the only ones allowed to make Sélection de Grains Nobles, which is just about same as Beerenauslese in Germany.
”Sélection de Grains Nobles are wines made with late harvest grapes that are affected by BOTRYTIS CINEREA, which results in very sweet and concentrated wines. Alsace Grand Cru, Vendange Tardive, and Sélection de Grains Nobles appellation wines can be made only from Gewürztraminer, Riesling, Pinot Gris, and Muscat.”
You can’t make this sweet wine evey year, and that is why the prices are quite high and these wines are difficult to find. Also are they quite ”strong” wines. Easily 14-15 % alcohol. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1475
| | 02-17-2005 01:11 PM |
| Quote:
i don't believe I have ever tasted a wine other than one made from Vitis vinifera spicies.
WHAT?!?!?! Are you implying you have never had Manischewitz Concord Grape? Get thee to the local discount liquor store posthaste!!! | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Truck Driver
Posts: 44
| | 02-17-2005 05:33 PM |
| Quote:
Quote:
i don't believe I have ever tasted a wine other than one made from Vitis vinifera spicies.
WHAT?!?!?! Are you implying you have never had Manischewitz Concord Grape? Get thee to the local discount liquor store posthaste!!!
Hi raybanz!
Sounds like a great juice to me! What a pitty they don’t have it here … *s*
The price is quite right too.
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1475
| | 02-17-2005 06:05 PM |
| Yes, pickmeup, Manischewitz Concord Grape is an experience. How this became a tradition for my Lutheran family from Bavaria, I don't know. Nonetheless, it has become a staple at holidays  | | | |
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dbw4
Grape Puncher
Posts: 902
| | 02-17-2005 06:32 PM |
| Ormbee's list is similar to the designations in one of the Robinson books I have on grape varieties. Off the top of my head I would've said Cab Sauv, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Chard, Nebbiolo, maybe Riesling. This list is somewhat subjective, but several prominent writers do have a specific list in mind....
DBW | | | |
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