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German Rieling Primer? Last Post 01-31-2004 02:43 PM by ChangeMe. 16 Replies. | Sort: |
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ChangeMe 
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1210
 | | 03-31-2003 03:51 AM |
| Looking for some basic info on German Riesling. The basics. Here is what I (think) I know..
There is a scale based on ripeness (sugar level?) Forgive my spelling but, Starting with:
Qualitatswein
Kabinett
Spatlese
Auslese
Berenauslese (botryits?)
Is there a site that has the full scale?
What is trocken and halb-trocken?
Which will age and which won't? | | |
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TCK
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1279
| | 03-31-2003 04:19 PM |
| I have done a good deal of research on this region and could write something up over the next few days. I just need some time. I had started a piece as an article for the site, so I have a head start. I would think that GATC could do a better job so I will also wait to see if he has any imput before I post a big primer.
TCK | | | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Stomper
Posts: 196
| | 03-31-2003 05:46 PM |
| Here's my kick at German Wine Law: German Wine Grades: -Deutsche Tafelwein (German Table wine) - grapes from within the four approved regions of Germany -Landwein (German Wine) - equivalent to Vin de Pays. Better quality than Tafelwein, it must come solely from one of 19 approved small regions. Must be dry or off-dry -Qualitatswein bestimmter Anbaugebiete (QbA) (Quality wine from a designated area of origin) - Wine from a single region (Anbaugebiete) of which there are 13. -Qualitatswein mit Pradikat (QmP) (Quality wine with distinction) - Wine from specified grapes from a single district (bereich). Chaptalisation is forbidden at this level. Hierarchy by must weight: -Kabinett - picked at normal harvest time but riper than QbA grapes -Spatlese - late harvest. Extra flavour -Auslese - specially selected grapes -Beerenauslese - individually selected grapes -Eiswein - unaffected by noble rot but picked in winter during heavy frost and pressed frozen. -Trockenbeerenauslese - shrivelled individually selected (noble rot) Geographic Terms Anbaugebiet - Region Bereich - District Gemeind - Commune Grosslage - group of vineyards Einzelage - vineyard Recent creation of VDP (Verband Deutches Pradikatsweinguter) - an association of pradikat wine estates. The VDP will institute new classifications. Kabinett and Spatlese wines will be dry wines. Wines will be further divided in to: -Gutswein - quality house wine labelled with the estate or village name -Klassifizierte Langenwein - wines from a single classified site bearing a VDP capsule. -Grosses Gewachs - super-premium hand crafted dry white.  | | | |
| Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2067
| | 04-01-2003 01:44 AM |
| Revlis has got an article I wrote on the structure of the German wine culture/society/laws. He said he will be publishing it soon. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1210
| | 04-01-2003 04:14 PM |
| Thank you for the info. I think this helps quite a bit at understanding the basics.
What is age-able? Kabinett and above? | | | |
| GATC
Wine Lover
Posts: 4740
| | 04-01-2003 09:47 PM |
| Trocken mean dry and halb-trocken means half-dry. I've seen spatlese trocken and even an auslese trocken so trocken is a key word to look for if you like (or don't like) dry rieslings. Germans tend to like dry wines, so most wines in a restaurant will be trocken.
As far a aging, the general rule is the higher up the ladder (or down the list in this case), the longer it will age. In good years, Kabinetts will be good for at least 5 years. Spatlesen should be aged 5 years plus, auslesen 7-8 years plus. But, I have to admit that it is very hard for me to let rieslings age. They are so nice young. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Stomper
Posts: 196
| | 04-01-2003 11:41 PM |
| GATC, I understood that the move to dry wines (Trocken spatlese and higher) was an attempt to break in to the American market. But to be sure, the off dry wines at the lower levels that Germans consume domestically have such enormous acidity that they appear dry. I don't let them age either. I've never developed a fondness for the petrol thing that appears as they age.  | | | |
| Carl
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 462
| | 01-21-2004 08:19 PM |
| I am a huge fan of German Riesling, and always thought Jancis Robinson's description of Riesling is spot-on:
Quote:
So just what is this precious distinctive character of the Riesling grape? Firstly, the grape does not naturally reach particularly high sugar levels. In global terms it is a relatively early ripening grape, even if compared to most of the grapes planted in Germany's coolish vineyards it is one of the last to ripen. In fact there is only any point in planting it on one of Germany's more favoured sites where it is exposed to sufficient sunlight to ripen it fully (Müller Thurgau and other ultra-precocious ripeners will do for the rest). Wherever it is planted, it rarely produces wines with more than 11 per cent alcohol and is often responsible for wines with just 8 per cent - a blessed relief in this era of high alcohol wines. But it is never short of flavour.
Riesling is particularly aromatic. Its aroma is so sharp and piercing, combined with naturally high acidity, that it can resemble Sauvignon Blanc in this respect. Except that whereas Sauvignon's aromas are of vegetation and green fruits (gooseberries), Riesling's are more likely to be of flowers, honey, minerals, nuts and citrus fruits. The exact flavour depends exactly on where it is grown. Even within the Mosel, its natural home, it can give a featherlight impression of rainwashed stone in the Saar, richly heady spice in the Würzgarten vineyard of Urzig and creamy hazelnuts in great Mittelmosel sites such as Wehlener Sonnenuhr - and that's within only 50 km.
To me the apogee of Riesling is its range of wine styles on the steep, slaty sides of the Mosel valley. Here the light, refreshing character of Riesling is most emphasised, in off-dry Kabinett, medium dry Spätlese and Auslese and some quite stunning sweet but delicate nectars labelled Beerenauslese, Trockenbeerenauslese and, made from frozen grapes, Eiswein. Drier Mosel Riesling is the standard aperitif I serve at home, weaning my friends off champagne.
The Nahe and Rheingau can also present us with Riesling classics, however, with increasing body, if not always such ageing capacity. Germany has few more classical wines than Riesling from the historic great estates, however many ups and downs some of them have suffered in terms of quality. The closer to the equator Riesling is grown, the less likely it is to need some residual sugar to counterbalance its naturally high acidity. Dry Rieslings from the Rheingau, Pfalz, Baden and Franken can make great bottles for the dinner table.
With such a distinct and sophisticated flavor profile, with such complex aromas, and with tremendous ageability, it is truly one of the noble grapes. In fact, I consider it the white equivalent to Cabernet Sauvignon, the premier red grape (I know I might get flack for this statement).
Sadly, German wine labelling laws are hardly consumer friendly. This is one of the reasons, I think, that German Riesling is underappreciated. They manage to have tons of very exact information (what other labels have an indicator of must weight??) but avoid the key question: is it any good? As has been discussed among German wine geeks inanother thread , some wine makers have attempted to introduce a Grosses Gewächs (Great Growth/Grand Cru) and Erstes Gewächs (First Growth/Premier Cru) classification scheme, but with very inconsistent results. Also, this scheme is limited to dry wines whereas the greatest non-dessert wines Germany that produces IMHO (Spätlese and Auslese) are not dry at all.
If I were a German Riesling newbie, I would take the following approach. Forget learning the classification schemes (Kabinett, Spätlese, etc) at the beginning. Just focus on top quality producers. My top dozen are as follows:
DÖNNHOFF, Nähe
JOH. JOS. PRÜM, Mosel-Saar-Rüwer
EGON MÜLLER - SCHARZHOF, Mosel-Saar-Rüwer
FRITZ HAAG, Mosel-Saar-Rüwer
DR. LOOSEN, Mosel-Saar-Rüwer
KELLER, Rheinhessen
REBHOLZ, Pfalz
GUNDERLOCH, Rheinhessen
BÜRKLIN-WOLF, Pflaz
ROBERT WEIL, Rheingau
JOSEF LEITZ, Rheingau
GEORG BREUER, Rheingau
German wine geeks can quibble with this list, but it is at least a good starting-off point. Then just try a variety of styles of wine made by any of the above, whatever you can get your hands on. It doesn't matter whether it is Kabinett, Spätlese or Auslese or Beerenauslese, or whether it is Trocken, Halbtrocken or Feinherb or whatever: the wines made by these guys are almost univerally good. (It should say Qualitätswein mit Prädikat (QmP) on the label, though - these are the top tier).
The purpose of going through this process it to learn for yourself what you like. I personally prefer Trocken (dry) Rieslings most of the time, so generally buy Kabinett Trockens. You might however prefer a more concentrated Spätlese, or a sophisticated Spätlese Trocken. Or you might want the Beethoven Symphony experience of German Riesling, an Auslese - a super concentrated, multi layered intense wine drinking experience. I admire these as the pinnacle of German Riesling (non-dessert wines anyway) but don't think they can be drunk everyday. Like going to the symphony, they demand full concentration. Just as I prefer to put a Mozart piano concerto in the CD player as background music, instead of a crashing and soaring symphony, I prefer drinking Kabinetts and dry Spätleses on a day-to-day basis. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Puncher
Posts: 986
| | 01-22-2004 05:34 PM |
| Nice to see this little topic crop back up.
I always have fun quibbling with lists cbmac. Your list does not leave much room for that, but I suppose I could disagree somewhere.
Keller: I have found the vast majority of the Keller wines I have tasted to be oversweet and out of balance
Loosen: Too inconsistent, perhaps from the sheer range of bottlings
Egon Muller: priced out of the market, with Spatlesen now going in the high $60s in the USA
I have no data on Rebholz, and I lament the loss of Muller-Catoir from the ranks of the great, but until there is some more data with the new cellar master I would not rate them a sure "buy."
For total newbies I would add a few high-QPR producers. They may not make the absolute best wines, but the wines are always clean and correct. They make great learning wines, and in some cases world-class wines:
Selbach-Oster (Mosel)
Hexamer (Nahe)
J.u.H.A. Strub (Rheinhessen)
And for top quality I would also look to Christoffel, Rheinhold Haart and St. Urbans-Hof (all in the Mosel). | | | |
| Tim
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1465
| | Jeremy Matthew
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2067
| | 01-22-2004 11:13 PM |
| Rieslingfan,
Ergon Muller isn't too bad down here considering the prices elsewhere around the world. | | | |
| GATC
Wine Lover
Posts: 4740
| | 01-23-2004 01:50 AM |
| Stealthman, that is a good site. I have to admit that I will probably not revew my membership to the GWS since I really have not learned as much as I has hoped. The 2001 tasting was not nearly as good as the Masters of Wine tasting we attended or the trade tasting. The fact that they did not have any Christoffel's, Donnhoff's, Fritz Haag's and other top estates really disappointed me. I am probably going to pass on the upcoming 2002's GWS tasting since I've already gone to 2002 tastings and have already purchased all of the 2002's that I want anyway. At least I got a medallion and got to attend functions at the German Embassy.
Rieslingfan, I agree with you on your comments. I'm not a fan of Rheinhessen in general. Christoffel, Selbach-Oster and Rheinhold Haart are among my favorites and those along with J.J. Prum and Fritz Haag, Darting Leitz and Donnhoff comprise about 90% of my German collection. Egon Muller and Weil are way overpriced in my book. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Puncher
Posts: 986
| | 01-23-2004 11:52 AM |
| Quote:
Stealthman, that is a good site. I have to admit that I will probably not revew my membership to the GWS since I really have not learned as much as I has hoped.
GATC,
As a chapter chairman in the GWS I am curious to know what kind of things you are interested in learning? My chapter has dome some fairly education tastings. I put on a verticals tasting and a site vs. site tasting to show aging and terroir differences respectively. Is this the kind of stuff you are interested in? | | | |
| GATC
Wine Lover
Posts: 4740
| | 01-28-2004 08:12 PM |
| Rieslingfan, good question. The items you mentioned (vertical tastings, aging, terrior) are good. The SF GWS has an event every month or every other month. Most are dinners at restaurants that have a good riesling selection w/ wines with the food. Frankly, the restaurants that they go to have no interest to me and the wines that are matched are not that interesting either.
There was a Maximin Grunhaus tasting where we got to try the first 2001's (they were air shipped for that occasion) that was pretty good. Unfortunately, the 89 from the GWS collection was corked, or off (both bottles). It was basically a tasting of 6 wines and I was impressed enough with the Absberg auslese to buy a case.
The event that really disappointed me was the big 2001 tasting, that I have commented on earlier. When the GWS provides over 80 wines and they did not include any of the wines that I eventually bought (~60 cases) except for the Dr. Loosen ET spatlese, there is something seriously wrong. The best wine was a sticky donated by the Dee Vine Wine guy. We pay hefty annual dues and a decent amount for the tasting so I expected a lot more. To have a 2001 tasting at the GWS with no Donnhoff, Christoffel, Fritz Haag, Leitz, Schaeffer, Haart, Selbach-Oster, etc. doesn't make sense to me.
Now, they are going to have the big 2002 tasting next month. Since I've already bought all of the 2002's that I wanted, the timing seems strange.
If I have better wines at home and I don't learn anything, I figure that it is a waste of time. Plus, I feel stupid wearing the medallion. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Puncher
Posts: 986
| | 01-30-2004 12:12 PM |
| Quote:
If I have better wines at home and I don't learn anything, I figure that it is a waste of time. Plus, I feel stupid wearing the medallion.
For what it's worth, just about everybody feels stupid wearing the medallion.
Your reasoning is sound. I don't do as many events (usually 4 per year), but I try to make sure each one is fairly educational, and if it's just a fun type event I try to keep it cheap. Heck, we even did a BYO dinner one time just to get together.
I'm sorry you are not finding the GWS more useful to you. On the other hand, the annual meeting this year in Philadelphia promises to be really good. Our national president is organizing it & there will be winemakers and I think David Schildknecht is coming. Plus I'll be there & that alone is worth the price of admission.  | | | |
| GATC
Wine Lover
Posts: 4740
| | 01-30-2004 11:15 PM |
| Rieslingfan, I would be interested in attending the national meeting. Appreciate if you post some information about it. This will be a good reason to renew my membership.
4/year is about right. This way you can focus on making the events worthwhile. | | | |
| ChangeMe
Grape Puncher
Posts: 986
| | 01-31-2004 02:43 PM |
| The 2004 national meeting is May 7-9 in Philadelphia. More details forthcoming. Check www.germanwinesociety.org for details. More info will be posted in the next month or so. | | | |
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