love_cab_chard 
Master of Wine
Posts: 12771
 | | 05-09-2005 01:46 PM |
| DavidN: I hold the bottles in this frig that I know I won’t touch in the next 5-7. Just an easy, cheap, temp fix or a way out until a permanent solution is found. | | | |
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Chris
Grape Sorter
Posts: 246
| | 05-09-2005 03:39 PM |
| I've often wondered about the proper way to rack/stack the bottles either in the storage cabinets or in the modified (WineStat) fridges. Do you literally stack them all the way to the top on top of one another with each row placed between the spaces of the bottles below? I'd be nervous about them possibly shifting. Would you lose much space by placing periodic racks every few rows to try to keep them more stable? Do most folks store their everyday (i.e. non-collectibles, less expensive) wines in storage cabinets or cellars too? I imagine that the faster turnaround of them makes maintaining exact temp and humidity unnecessary, especially as long as the basement maintains similar very acceptible (albeit ever so slightly less constant) conditions.
Sorry for asking so many questions.
Also, love_cab_chard, do you use the space in the freezer portion for anything?
Good suggestions, David, A.I., and everyone. I will continue to shop around for storage cabinets but will employ the WineStat option for now since I have one and a half extra refrigerators to use pending constructing a proper cellar. We took possession of the new house yesterday and there'll be a lot of work done in the basement all month. Then, I'll have a better perspective on available space; but I'll go with this plan in the interim like love_cab_chard is doing. I can appreciate the advice to slow down on purchases until a long term fix on storage happens but I have a lot of tasties on order right now though. With all of the expenses associated with a new house, I expect to downshift in wine purchases anyway for a while. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Barrel Filler
Posts: 1475
| | 05-11-2005 03:53 PM |
| I use a converted fridge to hold wine. When the fridge portion is adjusted to 54 - 56 degrees, the freezer portion is perfect for sodas and other foods that don't need ideal refrigeration temps. I have cardboard wine cases on their sides on the bottom and middle shelves. It'll comfortably hold about 55 bottles. | | | |
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Dave
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5832
| | 05-12-2005 10:55 AM |
| I thought that it was the vibration, rather than the temperature, that made refigerators such a bad choice for wine storage. I am sure that could be fixed though if the motor is removed and dampened. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Picker
Posts: 21
| | 05-12-2005 04:14 PM |
| Crafty,
it seems every wine drinker ho starts buying bottels for the future goes throught this same question: wine stortage. i agonized over this for some time before i rented a wine storage locker in addition to the unit i have at home.
here is the question: add up all your wine and how much it cost you to amass the collection you currently have. a lot right, use cellar tracker, believe me it will be shocking. now, how much is it worth to you to protect it? you have insurence on your house right? so don't cheap out here and buy your self a proper unit, there are many lower cost units the can hold 500 bottels, just omit the fancy glass doors and real wood. even better, excersice your new rights as a home owner and build one.
cheers,
opimian | | | |
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Pete
Left Coast
Wine Bottler
Posts: 3012
| | 05-13-2005 03:09 PM |
| When I last looked at the WineStat website, it had some good ideas for storing bottles in a converted refrigerator. Also, a cheaper alternative is a thermastat from Williams Brewing. I bought one for about $50 and coverted an old refrigerator my daughter had into wine storage in her San Jose garage.
Pete | | | I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. | |
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PurpleHaze
Grape Truck Driver
Posts: 47
| | 05-14-2005 08:38 PM |
| Quote:
And, realistically speaking, how many bottles can you really fill in a given sized unit? Say how many can fit in a Eurocave xxx # of bottle unit? What about a vintage keeper x # bottle unit? Etc
TJ,
I've got a Eurocave 260 and a 170. Each has 3 - 12 bottle display shelves, and the rest of bottles are stacked on bulk storage shelves. I think I have just under 400 bottles in both, and they are maxed!
Quote:
If you have a basement in the new home you can buy a Wine Room for the lowest cost per bottle storage ability EXCEPT building a custom cellar yourself in said basement. FWIW.
wiml,
I asked these questions elsewhere recently, but would appreciate your (or anyone with experience with these) opinions.
1) Who other than Wine Enthusiast offers them? Due to the price, I'll need to spend a little time working the deal.
2) The advertisements say "assemble with a screwdriver." Sounds too good to be true. I am not very mechanically inclined.
3) What is involved in venting the unit?
4) Have you ever broken one down, moved it an re-assembled it?
5) What do I do with my Eurocaves if I get one? Part of me says, sell them while they're fairly new. The other part of me says I'm going to fill up the wine room, and will be looking for additional storage before long!
PH | | | |
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wineismylife
Arlington, TX
Master of Wine
Posts: 12722
| | 05-15-2005 12:12 AM |
| Quote:
wiml,
I asked these questions elsewhere recently, but would appreciate your (or anyone with experience with these) opinions.
1) Who other than Wine Enthusiast offers them? Due to the price, I'll need to spend a little time working the deal.
I believe there are various sources but I purchased mine from Galt Wine Cellars in Houston. From what I understand there are basically three manufacturers of wine rooms in the US and everybody sources from them.
Quote:
2) The advertisements say "assemble with a screwdriver." Sounds too good to be true. I am not very mechanically inclined.
Basically that is true but a cordless drill is indispensible for assembling these things IMO. The biggest thing is making sure you have two people to assemble. Some portions are awkward otherwise. It took us six hours including getting extra supplies and drinking.
Quote:
3) What is involved in venting the unit?
Basically you just need a minimum of equal mass for ventilation. In my case the unit is in the garage which has plenty of flowing air and three times the space of the cellar itself. The only catch in my case is the units run a little too much because it is in the garage.
Quote:
4) Have you ever broken one down, moved it an re-assembled it?
Not yet but I do plan on doing that. At some point I plan on moving mine out of the garage and into the downstairs bedroom once I know my son is not coming back from college (wish me luck). Based on assembly I can't imagine it being too difficult to tear down and move. Maybe a weekend project at most.
Quote:
5) What do I do with my Eurocaves if I get one? Part of me says, sell them while they're fairly new. The other part of me says I'm going to fill up the wine room, and will be looking for additional storage before long!
PH
In my case I kept my free standing cellar. I placed it in the kitchen. We call it the "Queue". We move 3-4 times per year wines from the big cellar into the queue and add to that daily drinkers plus cellar defenders we purchase throughout the year and always have wine we can just pop as needed. Works great other than the additional electricity. | | | Joe-----Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone. | |
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PurpleHaze
Grape Truck Driver
Posts: 47
| | 05-15-2005 01:17 AM |
| wiml, Great info. Thanks mucho!  PH | | | |
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Pool Boy
Laurl, MD (DC suburb)
Master of Wine
Posts: 13801
| | 05-15-2005 01:20 AM |
| For those with units that essentially use bulk storage...
How the heck do you get to the bottles at the bottom? Or do you just put all of the bottles that you really shouldn't drink at the botttom? | | | www.roguefood.com -- www.cellartracker.com | |
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PurpleHaze
Grape Truck Driver
Posts: 47
| | 05-15-2005 01:29 AM |
| Quote:
Or do you just put all of the bottles that you really shouldn't drink at the botttom?
That's what I do. The only ones which make it to the top 2 levels of the bulk shelf are potential "drink now" bottles. It's a pain, and one of the reasons I'm looking into either a true cellar or a walk in room. I do empty out my Eurocaves once a year to wipe down the interior and to re-shuffle my bottles. It's nice to see some of these bottles after them being buried for 12 months.... I discover the occasional "forgotten bottle" when I do this as well.
PH | | | |
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5452
| | 05-15-2005 04:09 AM |
| On the assembly, I had them assemble things. I'm actually fairly close to the manufacturing plant (less than 25 miles away) and it was fairly obvious that the guys who delivered and assembled the wine room knew what they were doing as they didn't bother to look at the installation instructions. I'm very satisified with the installation. I watch the entire thing and I think I could install the wine room myself now (without the wine). | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Sorter
Posts: 307
| | 05-15-2005 04:42 PM |
| Quote:
For those with units that essentially use bulk storage...
How the heck do you get to the bottles at the bottom? Or do you just put all of the bottles that you really shouldn't drink at the botttom?
tj,
i have stuff buried t the bottom that won't see the light of day for at least 10 more years. i don't neeed to see them, that's what cellartracker is for. | | | |
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wineismylife
Arlington, TX
Master of Wine
Posts: 12722
| | 05-15-2005 04:55 PM |
| Bulk storage in a wine room is basically the magnum and oversized bottle storage area across the tops of the shelves. In my case I use bordeaux crates and place bottles in there. That way you basically lift out one box and grab what you need out of that box. This so far has been a great way for me to store 375 sweet wines in the wine room since there is not 375 storage in the racks. | | | Joe-----Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone. | |
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5452
| | 05-15-2005 08:47 PM |
| TJ, with the bulk storage area one typically uses boxes and if something is buried at the bottom you just pray you don't want to get anything in that box very often. With good planning one should be able to put wines in the boxes at the bottom/back which you won't want to get at for a while. At the place I have my offsite storage you can get 3.5" tubes that are three bottles deep. In a 20 case locker 81 of these can be put in times three is 243 bottles. You are never more than two bottles from any wine. I'm beginning to believe that the best way to build a wine cellar (and get the most capacity) is to use these tubes (3.5" cardboard tubes, 4" tubes are also available). That way you can use hexagonal close packed (HCP) which is the most efficent method of storing round objects. The only thing you must make sure of everything is well supported as you probably only want to stack these about 10 to 15 rows high and probably about that many across. | | | |
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David Sullivan
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2276
| | 05-16-2005 03:48 AM |
| Quote:
TJ, with the bulk storage area one typically uses boxes and if something is buried at the bottom you just pray you don't want to get anything in that box very often. With good planning one should be able to put wines in the boxes at the bottom/back which you won't want to get at for a while. At the place I have my offsite storage you can get 3.5" tubes that are three bottles deep. In a 20 case locker 81 of these can be put in times three is 243 bottles. You are never more than two bottles from any wine. I'm beginning to believe that the best way to build a wine cellar (and get the most capacity) is to use these tubes (3.5" cardboard tubes, 4" tubes are also available). That way you can use hexagonal close packed (HCP) which is the most efficent method of storing round objects. The only thing you must make sure of everything is well supported as you probably only want to stack these about 10 to 15 rows high and probably about that many across.
Skwid - where do you get these tubes? | | | |
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5452
| | 05-16-2005 04:16 AM |
| GFD, I've been renting them from the offsite storage place I use. He would sell me the tubes at $4 each which looks to be over twice what they should cost if you purchased them yourself. The 3.5" tube will accomadate all Bordeaux/Cab bottles, even the slightly oversized ones (Insignia, Jones, ...). The 3.5" tube will not handle the oversized Burgundy bottles which seem to be the rage for the Pinotfandel/Syrah producers. For that there is a 4" tube which should fit most everything else. The 4" tube even fits a Krug Champagne bottle. Next time I stop by my offsite storage I'll get dimmensions (wall thickness and interior diameter). If we want to get together I'm sure we can put together an order. Btw, the newer kistler bottles are just over 3.5" as are the newer DRC's. I've not tried any CA Pinot other than Kistler as I don't have any at my offsite storage. | | | |
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Pete
Left Coast
Wine Bottler
Posts: 3012
| | 05-16-2005 02:20 PM |
| GFD: If you can not find the cardboard tubes, go to Home Depot. In the PVC pipe section, you will find the size you want. I prefer the drainage pipe that has holes in it so that air will circulate through it. Remember to buy something to cut it with. Pete http://www.winestat.com/look under the typical installations topic | | | I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. | |
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skwid
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5452
| | 05-16-2005 03:43 PM |
| What Pete said will also work. Remember that you want 3.5" INSIDE Diameter, not OUTSIDE Diameter. IIRC most pipes are measured from the outside for the diameter specifications while most cardboard uses the inside diameter. | | | |
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tanglenet
Oakland, California
Wine Bottler
Posts: 3446
| | 05-16-2005 10:42 PM |
| skwid:
Who do you use in the bay area for your offsite storage? I'm beginning to run out of room at home and may have to use someone. | | TN posted on Cellartracker"
I drink no more than a sponge." François Rabelais
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