This was fun.

Chateau des Charmes, Niagara Peninsula, Ontario, Canada

Approx 170 g/L sugar, 9% alcohol; over the top on the luscious scale.

The acidity didn't even seem present, the integration was fantastic; huge bouquet, even out of a chilled, newly opened bottle; full bodied flavour with incredible mouthfeel, I needed another glass right off the bat.

Dried apricot just lays across the palate and doesn't leave. Marmalade quality through high sugar levels - this runs side by side a smoky velvet with floral accents. No petrol developing, just a fruit-forward, delicious drinker. Heavenly. Drink between now and 2010 to be safe, 2015 with good luck. 90 seconds of solid finish with about another 30 of secondary taste. Haunting afterwards.

I'm not awarding points, I don't feel it's my place to. If you're in the area, I highly recommend visiting the winery for this one. Only $35 Canadian, it's a wonderful deal. (And I usually stay away from CdC, so that's a good recommendation.)

Hey SJU, Chateau des Charmes... Is that the big chateau-looking building winery that looks like a mansion? I heard they got a big grant back in the day to build it and their vineyards over a section of land with gov't owned natural gas lines and stuff. True?

I sort of got turned off by the place when we went there as it seemed a bit stuffy to me. Still that way?

That's the place, TJ. I've had private tastings there four times and never bought anything. I thought the staff a little distant, especially considering the swill they were pushing. Nice gift shop, though.

TJ,

I can double check about the grants... I can't recall off the top of my head, and since it all happened before I was born / when I was an infant, I'm not 100% sure. It's definitely the mansion surrounded by vines in the middle of nowhere though... just down the street from the Husky Gas Station and 24 Hour Diner.

I do recall them having another location originally, at the foot of the Niagara Escarpment; now their building is on the "St. David's Bench", halfway up. Of course, since they're a bigger place, they'll buy all of the grapes for the non-reserve wines from anyone that'll sell them. Really intimidating place, although on good days their staff can be attractive. They were some of the early runners in Niagara Icewine; not the first, but among the first. Our university is having a function soon with some of their 2000 Icewine, I'll hopefully get to try that out.

Interesting fact I can tell you is that (unless I'm mistaken), they were the first to test out fans which increase airflow around vines during the winter, when it looks like the temperatures might dip below -22 celsius. Niagara had a short -24 shock back in the 2002 winter, so a lot of vines took a hit, except for CdC. Since then, vineyards all over have been purchasing these large tower style fans, and I BELIEVE they get a cut of the sales since they pioneered the effort / proved they work. The fans are expensive too, I think ballpark 5 to 10 thousand dollars (Canadian) each. Costs around $200 per minute to run as well.

Grapes hardest hit were the Bordeaux varietals (especially some lots of Sauv), Gewürztraminer, and the only Zinfandel vines in Canada. Chard's weren't bad bad, most are rebounding now. Gamays and Pinots didn't fare too well either, from what I understand. Riesling was virtually untouched. Anything 2 years or younger was fine. Lots of places replanted.

Oh well.

Hopefully that answers your question and I haven't rambled too much. Cheers!

SJUVino--

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Interesting fact I can tell you is that (unless I'm mistaken), they were the first to test out fans which increase airflow around vines during the winter, when it looks like the temperatures might dip below -22 celsius. Niagara had a short -24 shock back in the 2002 winter, so a lot of vines took a hit, except for CdC. Since then, vineyards all over have been purchasing these large tower style fans, and I BELIEVE they get a cut of the sales since they pioneered the effort / proved they work. The fans are expensive too, I think ballpark 5 to 10 thousand dollars (Canadian) each. Costs around $200 per minute to run as well.

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That's pretty interesting. Learned a new thing today thanks to you.

SJUVino

Right you are on CdC making money off those fans. The only problem with the fans is that there has to be a warmer pocket of air above the fans for them to be effective. On many occasions when the mercury drops to dangerous levels for vines there is no warmer pockets to be circulated by the fans. Rendering the fans utterly useless. An expensive lawn ornament.

True enough, but they should still have some good use. Niagara isn't that cold though, the escarpment takes care of most of that. But like I say, Charmes' crops were still healthy in the worst year of recent history; if global warming throws winter out of whack and it gets drastic in coming years, everyone will just start burying their vines like they do in Quebec. More work, less Icewine, and not a fun Spring either.

J-T's Delaine Vineyard just outfitted their field a few weeks ago, spent a pretty penny on it. I dunno, I never liked the looks of them. Too clunky and awkward looking over nicely kept vines. Problem is, with the amount of time and effort invested in the industry at the moment, they'll never go back on them unless something quite revolutionary comes around.

Hell, let's just pull up all the viniferas and make strictly Vidal Icewine. I drive up some of the streets and I see those fresh Vidals being planted. Vintners know the market. Icewines sell, and until you get a grasp on them, people will buy almost anything if they try it/like it. Case in point... Vintages Essentials Collection... Inniskillin.

Hve to disagree on the Vidals. That hybrid produces coarse, syrupy ice wines, lacking the intense fruit and acidity of Riesling and Cabernet Franc ice wines.

I'd have to look back to my first trip to the Niagara region back in 1994 to open my eyes to the world of wine, if only in a tiny way. We stumbled upon all of the wineries and had a great time cruising around and tasting wines. I actually enjoyed most of what we tasted at the time (hey it tastes like wine!), and bought a little wine rack and maybe a half case of bottles to take home with me. I even liked the Vidals.

Now?

I think your comments are at a minimum generally true, Board-o.

I agree with Board-o too. The vidal is a work horse of a grape, you could practically make it grow on your window sill in Yellowknife and still get a decent crop out of it. However, SJUVino does have a point that the majority of the Canadian sweet wine drinkers don't care if it is Vinifera or not and furthermore have likely not heard the word before. But I do care, and so do my tastebuds.

Yep, it's quite syrupy because the Brix easily get higher; even though the legal minimum for all Icewine in Ontario is 35, they can easily hit 40-50 Brix if they hang out long enough. The other benefit to the Vidal is that its skins are thick enough to hang on for a longer period. Crops like the 2001 were in danger of being lost since the pick didn't happen til February in most parts. Like Jump mentioned, it is a workhorse of a grape. And since the European Union has allowed Canadian Icewines through for easier trade, we're going to need more of it to export. I'd bet it'll be Vincor and Andres (possibly Magnotta too) to do the first major shipments out of country. I know Vincor's got product in Charles de Gaulle airport, I saw it in February when I was coming back from Italy. Remember, Canada was made famous through Vidal back in Vinexpo, 1991. It was a 1989 Vidal from Inniskillin... Gran Prix d'Honeur (I think I'm mispelling it). Marketing is marketing.

I will agree that a well done Riesling Icewine is quite a treat, the Cabernet Franc ones I've tried are hit and miss. In the summer though, I had an excellent Cabernet Sauvignon Icewine from Harbour Estates; personally I see the Sauv as the next trendy red Icewine. Merlot hasn't taken off yet as an Icewine (Pillitteri Estates did one in 1999, but then moved to Franc/Sauv afterwards) and I think Royal DeMaria is the only place to have tried making a Gamay Noir.

I dunno, as much you may not like them Board_O, Vidal Icewines will likely keep a place in my heart, likely cause I cut my teeth on them. Joseph's Estates, Pillitteri Estates, Konzelmann Estates and Riverview Cellars are among my favourites Vidal Icewines. Sugar levels are generally around the 20-22 mark (Canadian sugar scale), and with their balance of fruit and caramelizing, they're really quite the treat. Crown Bench has some interesting Icewine creations as well: Vidal Icewine infused with Chocolate, Maple Syrup, and Hot Peppers (all separately of course).

All told, a Canadian Icewine is best enjoyed 4-6 years after the date on the bottle, depending on who the producer is. Personally, I'd love a 1998 right now. I'm saving a 1999 I picked up awhile ago to enjoy when I finally graduate.

Question though, TJ, have you visited Niagara since 1994?

Hey, I cut my teeth on Lancers and Paul Masson, but I moved on. I know a lot of people buy Vidal, but I'll buy fewer bottles of Riesling, Cab Franc, or Germans, rather than drink syrup.

By the way, I've been to Crown Bench many times and like to combinations as oddities, not as great wines. Peter Kocsis donated a few bottles to the June, 2002 dinner in NYC.

SJUVino,

If you are looking for '98's go to the LCBO website and do a search. Cave Spring has an awesome Chenin Blanc Icewine from 98 or 99. Still loaded with sugar but more importantly tons of fruit and a backbone of acidity that has you reaching for another glass. It's the balance that you get from Vinfera that we're talking about. Vidal is well, Vidal and while I don't disagree that lots of people buy and enjoy it, lots of people buy and enjoy McDonalds too! I hardly think it is a worthy product to base the Canadian wine marketing strategy on. After all when you're fighting for respect in a world market the least you can do is start from a level playing field(meaning noble grape varieties).

***edited because I double checked the vintages on the Ch.B. Icewine and they're all '02. There are a few bottles of '98 Riesling around the stores which would be real nice right about now.

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Question though, TJ, have you visited Niagara since 1994?

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SJUVino--

Mrs. TJ and I went back again a few years later, I think it was 1996. Mostly we went to do more fun stuff around there as we still weren't mega-wine-os then. Mrs. TJ took her mother there maybe 3-4 years ago, too.

Jump - I knew about the Chenin Blanc actually, I went to Cave Springs in the summer and they're sold out of it. Still, it's something to try and track down if I can. Who's got a 98 Riesling out in the Vintages section? CS?

TJ - a lot's changed since 1996. We're up to about 50 wineries in the area now. If you ever do visit, go to winesofontario.org and check for special events - January should have the Icewine Festival Passport special on - lots of participating wineries with dessert pairings - always a great time.

Board_O - have you tried Livia's Gold from Crown Bench? I haven't tried it, but it looked interesting. I believe it was a Botrytis Affected Chardonnay... and I agree on the fact that they weren't great, they were definitely novelty.

No one, to my knowledge, has released a 98 recently. But i have seen a bottle or two in stores of CS Icewine, definetly 98's.
i'm not sure if a websearch would work because it probably has the same SPC number as the newer vintages. If you're serious about getting some I can let you know what store I find it in and have them transfer it to your local.

let me know

It's not too big of a deal, thanks - I just tracked down one of Vineland Estates' 1998 Rieslings in Oshawa actually, I have a friend going there this weekend.

Right now I've got a 99 Tokaji, a 99 German TBA, an 02 Sparkling Riesling Icewine from Pillitteri, and an 01 Vidal from Maleta. The next dessert wine purchases probably won't be til Christmas, unless I swing by an LCBO around here to pick up that Chenin Blanc.

Otherwise, some places will still keep past stock - I think Konzelmann was rereleasing a 98 or 99 Riesling Icewine sometime soon as it is. Otherwise, 02 was a solid year, I can still invest in those for the next few years.

Have you tried Lailey's Riesling Icewine? I haven't yet, but I think I will this weekend when I'm down in Niagara again.

I've never tried any sweet wines from lailey. however, when i toured there i tasted what i consider to be the pinnacle of chardonnay's made here in ontario, or canada for that matter.

special barrel reserve or something. he only made 60 some odd cases of it and it was nearing 40 bucks a bottle. an incredible effort though.

No, I never tried the Livia's Gold.

Cave Springs release some of their Riesling Ice Wines after aging in their cellars. When we were there last, Brian Kelly opened a 1997 for us. I wouldn't be surprised if the '98 is from CS.