Eric Mottram 
Grape Sorter
Posts: 261
 | | 06-16-2004 03:42 PM |
| hurry if you want it | | |
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David Niederauer
Los Gatos, CA
VinoCellar.com Extraordinaire
Posts: 30986
| | 06-16-2004 03:43 PM |
| Aaaaaaa... I better stop staring at your new avatar and get on the phone.  | | | |
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Seek
Upstate NY
Wine Thief
Posts: 2772
| | 06-16-2004 04:02 PM |
| Ouch!!!
this is not looking pretty! | | | |
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S Frye
Grape Puncher
Posts: 787
| | 06-16-2004 04:10 PM |
| Gone  | | | |
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mountainman
Mammoth Mountain
Wine Addict
Posts: 6219
| | 06-16-2004 04:18 PM |
| Sorry, ronmc2 and myself combined for the last 10 they had. Thanks for the tip just wish I hadn't bought a couple for $160 already. | | | |
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Rothko
Palm Beach
Wine Connoisseur
Posts: 5724
| | 06-16-2004 05:24 PM |
| You've got to move fast with this crowd...  | | | |
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JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 06-16-2004 05:28 PM |
| But I thought the great thing about Bordeaux was that there are virtually unlimited amounts of the highest scoring wines that are never bundled that can be obtained at the cheapest prices with one phone call??? | | | |
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ojeffso
warren, new jersey
Wine Lover
Posts: 4877
| | 06-16-2004 06:00 PM |
| jones-that was the way it used to be. the chateau have learned how to do it the american capitalistic way this time around. they left too much on the table with the 2000/2001/2002 vintages, especially the 2000 vintage. most of the 2003 releases are now either fair value or above fair value. $119 for the 2003 montrose is slightly below fair value. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 567
| | 06-16-2004 06:11 PM |
| Quote:
jones-that was the way it used to be. the chateau have learned how to do it the american capitalistic way this time around. they left too much on the table with the 2000/2001/2002 vintages, especially the 2000 vintage. most of the 2003 releases are now either fair value or above fair value. $119 for the 2003 montrose is slightly below fair value.
What are your thoughts on the future of futures? I will be very interested to see what these wines sell for in 2006. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Sorter
Posts: 307
| | 06-16-2004 06:13 PM |
| Quote:
But I thought the great thing about Bordeaux was that there are virtually unlimited amounts of the highest scoring wines that are never bundled that can be obtained at the cheapest prices with one phone call???
i am sure that 03 montrose was avaliable at many more outlets than 01 harlan was. no? | | | |
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JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 06-16-2004 06:14 PM |
| That's true (although this is not a completely new phenomenon) and is exactly what I was saying by my post. | | | |
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ojeffso
warren, new jersey
Wine Lover
Posts: 4877
| | 06-16-2004 06:19 PM |
| i agree. this just may be the new way. | | | |
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JonesWineNo1
Sommelier
Posts: 8568
| | 06-16-2004 06:19 PM |
| 2001 Harlan Estate has not been released yet so your question is premature but when it is released it will be available at multiple outlets. Of course, everyone will not get the wine at the MSRP/futures price (some for less, some for more) but then few get first tranche Bordeaux futures direct from the source either. | | | |
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ojeffso
warren, new jersey
Wine Lover
Posts: 4877
| | 06-16-2004 06:21 PM |
| my thoughts are that many of the prices are above fair value. in a few days i will post what i consider fair value. this will take into consideration the cost of money. for example, cos d'estournel at $130 a bottle is above fair value. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 567
| | 06-16-2004 06:37 PM |
| Quote:
in a few days i will post what i consider fair value. this will take into consideration the cost of money. for example, cos d'estournel at $130 a bottle is above fair value.
I look forward to reading them.
I thought the Cos was overpriced, and passed. The first growths futures are way beyond anything I am willing to pay.
I was happy with the Leoville Barton price, I thought it was fairly priced, especially considering the ratings it received. | | | |
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whiner
Second star to the right, and straight on till morning
Wine Thief
Posts: 2875
| | 06-16-2004 09:05 PM |
| I can't believe Bordeaux has gotten so expensive that $119 for a Montrose future is a great deal (wasn't the '00 only about $60 on futures). Still, after Parker's barrel taste, what did I expect?  a | | | I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland. <br>-- Woody Allen | |
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Dr_Tannin
Barrel Sampler
Posts: 2498
| | 06-16-2004 09:09 PM |
| $120 for Montrose at Binny's. Called w/in 2 hrs after receiving e mail. All gone.
The prices for these 2003 Bordeaux wines must be rational or the people buying them irrational, because the futures are flying in and out like the wind.
Well, I'm done with '03 Bordeaux for now unless a deal as good or nearly so comes along. Sadly, no Montrose | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 567
| | 06-16-2004 09:52 PM |
| Quote:
I can't believe Bordeaux has gotten so expensive that $119 for a Montrose future is a great deal (wasn't the '00 only about $60 on futures). Still, after Parker's barrel taste, what did I expect?
a
Considering first tranche was aprox $70 (give or take) , this really isn't a deal. Considering Premier Cru and Wine club charged $15+ over K&L and Binny's, it is a deal.
MHO, I don't think $119 is a great price but I don't expect it to sell for less in 2006. I wish I had caught the Wally's offering at $80.
We in the USA have multiple issues this year. The Dollar against the Euro is weak. The three tier system. That many skipped on the 2002 futures, thus lessening the odds they would get dibs at first tranche pricing isn't helping either.
Regardless, I think the Cos was released at a ridiculously high price, the first growths are insane as well (MHO!).
I didn't buy many futures this year. I wanted the Cos and the Latour but not at those prices.
The only deal I feel I got was with the 2003 Leoville Barton. | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Sorter
Posts: 307
| | 06-16-2004 10:04 PM |
| personally, i am happy to pay good money for a good bordeaux vs. a california cab. like i said, i love cali cabs and probably always will, but for me i would rather spend my money on cases of quality bordeaux. just ordered some 03 bellevue today  (great price too) | | | |
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ChangeMe
Grape Fermenter
Posts: 567
| | 06-16-2004 10:41 PM |
| Quote:
personally, i am happy to pay good money for a good bordeaux vs. a california cab.
I love 'em both.
I will pay good money for either if I feel it is worth it to me, which is what all this boils down to after all. ;^)
There are those old sayings (cliches) "One man's meat is another man's poison" "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" etc.
The only person who can decide if it is worth the price is the person paying the bill.
We've (Elephants and I) been buying futures a short time, only since the 1995 campaign (with the exception of 2000, thanks to the Rare LLC debacle which we unfortunately found ourselves entangled in. Sigh. Live and learn). This year seems to be particularily insane in that first tranche prices (Cos for example ) are quite high, not to mention the weaker dollar.
2006 will show if the market can bear even higher prices when the 2003 bordeaux wines are released. That is the only way buying on futures would be worth the risk for me. When buying most CA wines, one is buying a finished product rather than speculation on the quality of the wine 2-3 years out. If I am not going to be paying much more for the bottled bordeaux (over the futures price) , I would rather keep the money in the bank earning interest.
We'll have to see how this all shakes out in the next few years. | | | |
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