2002 Leitz Rudesheimer Klosterlay Kabinett $15, 8% alcohol

Pale straw color, no spritz. Thin well spaced legs.

Fairly rich and creamy Rheingau nose. I need to get a better descriptor than a Rheingau nose. Somehow the brown bottles for Rheingau's and green bottles for Mosel's seem to fit the styles. Rheingau's are more masculine and Mosel's are more feminine to me.

Mouthful of tart apple with good spices and good acidity. Impressive concentration for a Kabinett. Slightly chalky and stoney. More exciting and a lot more going on that the Dragonstone for me.

The wine evolved nicely the 2nd and 3rd nights. A lot of vanilla in the nose and lemon is more dominant. Quite a mouthful and very intense and interesting wine. Pretty impressive for a Kabinett. Surprisingly, the spritz showed up the third day.

Rieslingfan, I'm really interested to see what you think.

Nice notes GATC. My bottle of this is in the drinking queue. I should get to it in the next week to 10 days.

I should say though, that the descriptor "chalky" is one that I kept coming backl to when I tasted the Leitz 2002s in June. They were all big wines with a chalky feel. Great stuff. The chalkiest was the 2002 Magdalenenkreuz Spatlese. I did not taste the Klosterlay at that event.

Well I finally got to my bottle of Klosterlay. My general assessment is that it's a pretty good wine, but it does not blow my doors off at all.

There's a powerful citrus element that I find most closely resembles lime. It's much more laser-like than the 2001 (which was somewhat broad in a good way), but does not have the mid-palate presence/richness that the 2001 had. The 2002 also finished drier than its predecessor, but that's ok.

Overall I liked the flavors, but felt a bit let down by the overall intensity. I liked the Dragonstone better, as I felt it was more complete from front to back (though a bit candied in its sweetness).

My other issue is that with the more focused acidic structure of the 2002, it does not distinguish itself stylistically from the Drachenstein the way the 2001 did. In 2002 the Drachenstein and Klosterlay (both QbA that year) share a similar personality, and I think the ability to chaptalize the Drachenstein (as a QbA) helped to fill in the mid-palate hole that is present in the Klosterlay.

Overall I would buy more of the Drachenstein rather than the Klosterlay if I needed some more QbA/Kabinett (which I don't).

Very interesting. It would be interesting to do this again in 3-4 months. Your description of the wine is similar to my impressions of some of the 2001's that I had - predominant lemon/lime characteristics and no mid palate. The wine changes the next day or two and this trend is more evident 3-4 months later. The fruit also seems muted when the wine is at this stage. It makes me wonder if the bottle is corked, but the next day eliminates this concern.

Anyway, the Klosterlay Kabinett was twice the wine the Dragonstone was to me. The fact that you had different impressions is fascinating. I guess I'll have to get some more and serve it blind at a BAWE tasting. Either way, 2002 Leitz's are looking real good (I love the Roseneck spatlese).

I had some of the Klosterlay left in the bottle for a second night. (I did not have this opportunity with the Dragonstone). So last night I found it more complex, but powerfully acidic to the point of near pain. It really reminded me of tasting young '96s.

I worry for the balance of this wine.

On the subject of 2001s, have you always found a mid-palate hole, or is this something new now that they have started to close down?

I see your point about the acid and balance. I thought this wine was pretty impressive for a Kabinett and I can take the acid.

Actually, it's been interesting to see how the wines are evolving. When I opened the 2001's within 1-2 months upon arrival, virtually all were better the 2nd or 3rd day. Now it's 4-8 months from arrival and most are very nice the 1st day with some air time.

I'm finding a few wines with this mid-palate hole now. Air time helps, but they don't recover completely, so I'm assuming that they are starting to shut down. I've been trying to find a trend for each wine (since I have cases of each wine), but I'm having trouble. The few wines that seem to be shutting down are Kabinett's, while the spatlesen and auslesen are drinking well.

I'm also confused a little about Rovani's claim about the high % of corked wines. There has only been one bottle (a Donnhoff) that I would say was definitely corked. From tastings, I've had at least 500 wines (mostly 2001's but some 2002's) andI've opened at least 75 bottles at home. There have been some wines that I though were corked, but they changed dramatically the next day.

Note that Rovani claims to be extremely sesitive to TCA. Personally I think he might be picking up something else, but then again he could be picking up TCA. It would be interesting to see if he picked up these flavors in NZ/AU whites. Unfortunately I don't think he tastes blind (or has the bottle poured blind) so if the flavor was the same he would probably attribute it to something other than TCA in the NZ/AU whites (many of which are capped with Stelvin).

GATC,

Your experience with 2001s seems to be the opposite of mine. When the 2001s first came out I found them great on day 1 & then shutting down with even just hours in the glass (much like some young Bordeaux). Now that a year has passed they need at least 24 hours of air to show really well.

I'm not surprised that you find the kabinetten to be the first wines to shut down. The spatlesen and auslesen have more baby fat and overall depth to show well, even when they have somewhat shut down. Auslese will show some character through the whole shut down phase purely because of its weight and sugar.

As for TCA, I'm right there with Rovani on that one. Certain producers have been a real problem for me so far, with a much higher corked percentage than others. I've had about 8% corked overall to my taste. Many are truly only apparent with opening a second bottle. I saw the same phenomenon in 1999 (the last vintage I bought a lot of), and have had opportunities to open multiple bottles of the same wine (i.e. offlines/tastings) where the subtle TCA became much more apparent.

I fully endorse screw caps. I don't want plastic corks, as every experience I have had with them shows the wines don't age well. They are fine for wines to drink now (e.g. QbA level), but I like to age all my pradikat wines & plastic corks just don't do the job IMO.

Finally...I was very surprised at my reaction to the Leitz kabinett. I am normally very acid tolerant. I'm a big fan of the 1996 vintage (there's some acidic wines). I don't know what's up with me and the Klosterlay. Go figure.

Thanks, this is educational for me. Rieslingfan, I think you may be getting your wines sooner than we are on the West Coast. This could account for some of the different impressions that we are getting when we first get the wine. I've only gotten some of my wines a couple of months ago.

The % of corked wines I experience could also be skewed. I've tasted hundreds of 2001's at large tastings (German Wine Society, Master of Wines, etc.) where 75-150 bottles are offered at each event. When I think about it, if they open a wine and it is corked, it will be thrown out quickly and replaced either by the person opening it and trying it or by one of the first people trying the wine. At the 2002 tasting, I saw this happen. I did notice one person point out to the host that a 2nd bottle of a wine just opened was corked. It was quickly replaced. So my comment that I have not experienced a cork bottle at these tastings does not represent wines opened and thrown out.

The other thing is that of the 55+ cases of wines, I have mainly bought from 10 estates and well over 1/2 have come from 3 estates. Of the 75+ bottles that I've opened at home, the great majority have come from only a few estates.

8% is extremely high, but still 1/2 of what Rovani is experiencing. There may have been a couple of bottles that I though may have been slightly corked, so I may be at 3-4% vs the 1-2% that I thought I was at. You are correct in that trying multiple bottles of the same wine close together can help detect this. Rovani says that he is sensitve to this, which makes sense. I'm very sensitive to Brett and tannin.